Here is Tim Lee and here is Adam Serwer. I’m unconvinced.
I’ve tried to say this many different times and in many different ways, and I can’t imagine I can do a much better job of expressing my views clearly. But I’ll do my best. Tim writes:
Reihan’s objects that “we’ve collectively decided” that the opportunity to live and work in the United States “will be treated as” a scarce good. I suspect he’s chosen this weird passive-voice phrasing because he knows better than to straight up claim that the opportunity to live in the United States is a scarce good. It’s not. We should let the DREAM kids stay here and we should be letting a lot more kids from poorer countries come here. Doing the one doesn’t in any way prevent us from doing the other.
I’ve chosen this weird passive-voice phrasing because think the broad democratic consensus matters. “Scarcity” is constructed in many domains, including spectrum policy. Is legal access to the spectrum a scarce good? Yes. Can we imagine a universe in which everyone has access to the spectrum? Yes. Can we imagine a universe in which the corporate entity that is the United States has ceased to exist and we live in a peaceful confederation of law-based jurisdictions, including non-territorial ethnoscapes, to use Arjun Appadurai’s term? Yes. I can also imagine Earth evolving into an “ecumenopolis,” with a population of tens of billions living in vast self-sustaining arcologies.
But my sense is that there is an upper bound on the number of foreigners that U.S. citizens will welcome to work and settle in the United States in any given year. I don’t know what that number is, but I imagine it’s not much higher than, say, 1.5 million per annum at the very high end. I am willing to accept that as a starting point, i.e., we’re not going to allow 3 million or 7 million or even 1.6 million. Chances are that a number smaller than 1.5 million would reflect the preferences of a voting majority, e.g., 800,000.
So how do we decide who “gets these slots”?
I can see how we might want to give preference to potential migrants who will make a significant contribution to the economic well-being of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents over the life cycle. That is, we should balance expenditures early and late in life against gains made during the prime-age years, factoring in the implications of family reunification, etc.
On humanitarian grounds, I can see why we might welcome at least some potential migrants with limited English language proficiency, modest skills, etc. These migrants, like any migrants, will make an economic contribution, yet this contribution is somewhat more likely to be outweighed by costs associated with social service expenditures. I definitely agree that the U.S. needs less-skilled workers, yet there are distributional consequences that merit at least some attention, provided we collectively care about things like Gini coefficients, etc. (I don’t, but many others do.) That is, if Americans cared less about the overall rate of child poverty, welcoming larger numbers of less-skilled migrants who lag far behind native-born U.S. workers in educational attainment and thus find it more difficult to secure high-wage employment, the political constraint would presumably be much weaker. (This is one reason why the alliance between liberals and libertarians on these issues lies on a shaky foundation.)
A serious humanitarian immigration policy requires a rigorous assessment of how to achieve the greatest humanitarian gain constrained by the aforementioned (constructed) scarcity. Given the power of remittances relative to overseas development assistance, the decision about which less-skilled migrants to welcome into the United States, either on a temporary or permanent basis, is a weighty one. I would exclude all less-skilled workers with OECD countries and focus on workers from highly-indebted poor countries, and from regions in humanitarian crisis. There would, of course, be some prudential limits.
Which countries do I have in mind? One place to start, and potentially stop, is with countries with a GDP per capita below $2,500, e.g., countries like Burundi, Comoros, Kenya, Madagascar, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, and Zambia, among many others. Haiti, a country ravaged by natural disasters and a failing state, is another strong candidate. Note that Mexico, a member of the OECD with a GDP per capita of $13,609, ahead of Turkey, Brazil, South Africa, and Colombia and just behind Malaysia, is not on that list.
To be sure, Mexican migrants, like Malaysian or Dutch or Korean migrants, should be allowed to take their chances in what we might call the non-humanitarian track. But I can’t see how citizens of Mexico, an upper-middle-income country, merit slots that would otherwise go to families that would otherwise face the threat of dire poverty (i.e., lives led under the two-dollar-a-day standard), ritual mutilation, and much else.
Basically, we’re dealing with coalition politics. One coalition recognizes that there is a large, energized minority in the United States that identifies with migrants from Mexico and the Central American states, and that there are political gains to be made by emphasizing family reunification and earned legalization as part of a comprehensive immigration reform. There is no large, energized minority devoted to the interests of potential migrants from the world’s poorest countries. And so we’re told that an immigration settlement that entrenches the interests of one set of relatively affluent countries, just as the immigration settlement of the 1920s privileged potential migrants from northern Europe over all others, is the “humanitarian” approach.
Again, I think that the all of the options we’re dealing with are departures from an approach that emphasizes universal brotherhood over all other considerations, and it’s far from obvious to me that earned legalization for a number of children of unauthorized migrants is preferable to welcoming even a small number of workers from the world’s poorest countries, who will send remittances home that could prove transformative for the families and communities left behind.
I’ve been told that defeating the DREAM Act and a vision of comprehensive immigration reform that entrenches the privileged position of people born in neighboring upper-middle-income will not yield my favored outcome. That could be true, but I doubt it. My sense is that many voters resent the notion that they are bigots because they are concerned about unauthorized immigration. Many of these voters are, I suspect, more sympathetic to the would-be migrants who take part in the formal immigration system, e.g., by participating in the diversity visa lottery. My sketch of a more humanitarian immigration policy would be modeled on the diversity visa lottery, only it would be restricted to the world’s poorest countries. Residents of all countries would be eligible to apply to work and settle in the U.S. through a points system that emphasizes skills, as we discussed above. Even if the total number of migrants under this system were somewhat lower than the current total when we combine authorized and unauthorized migrants, the impact of remittances and brain circulation would, I suggest, do far more for global welfare than the existing system. Remember that we’re talking about helping societies in which large numbers of people haven’t reached the two-dollar-a-day standard.
The DREAM Act, in my view, entrenches an immigration status quo that privileges a politically appealing and influential group over voiceless would-be workers.
Tim writes:
From my perspective, the fundamental question in the immigration debate is: do we recognize immigrants as fellow human beings who are entitled to the same kind of empathy we extend to other Americans, or do we treat them as opponents in a zero-sum world whose interests are fundamentally opposed to our own? Most recent immigration reform proposals, including the Founder’s Visa and the various guest worker proposals, are based on the latter premise: immigrants in general are yucky, but certain immigrants are so useful to the American economy that we’ll hold our collective noses and let them in under tightly control conditions.
The DREAM Act is different. The pro-DREAM argument appeals directly to Americans’ generosity and sense of fairness, not our self-interest. The hoops kids must go through to qualify for DREAM are focused on self-improvement for the kids themselves, not (like the Founders Visa) on maximizing benefits for American citizens. There’s no quota on the number of kids who are eligible, and at the end of the process the kids get to be full-fledged members of the American community.
In contrast to Tim, if I’m understanding him correctly, I think it is perfectly acceptable for the United States to craft an immigration policy according to the self-interest of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents. An expansive self-interest will include a desire to make a humanitarian effort to better the lives of the world’s poorest people. And it is to that end that I think we should craft an immigration policy biased towards aiding those from the world’s poorest countries.
Here is a DREAM Act compromise I’d be more amenable to, though I think it is far from perfect: have it apply only to young adults from countries with a GDP per capita of less than $2,500.
I don’t have anything to add to Adam’s remarks. I find them characteristically smart, though I disagree with his conclusion.
Interesting ideas. I'd love to see a higher rate of migration from the very poor countries. Though the distance and expense of the travel may make it unlikely that many, even if qualified and selected, could make the trip.
Also, I think that the fact that Mexico is, by American standards, a poor country, means that Mexican migrants won't stop coming here no matter what the system. If that system doesn't provide a sufficient legal path as a valve then the migrants will simply use the same path they have been using for years.
I've been practicing immigration law for the past 10 years and teaching procedure to paralegals for the last 4, and it's clear to me that Americans are basically clueless about how people immigrate to the United States.
They've bought into the idea that there's a line that everyone can get into as if Ellis Island is still operating. When I tell then what it's actually like they're quite shocked at the inhumane and inefficient system.
As far as bigotry (at least towards people from Mexico), I think it's a larger part of the problem than you think, many of my American clients talking about their spouses (and even many of my immigrant clients) have said something to the effect that they're not Mexicans so the USCIS should welcome them with open arms.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI would be more sympathetic to this viewpoint if the gates for immigration were open. Instead, a trickle of people are allowed in; those we educate at our finest universities want to stay, but generally can't.
Those who decry illegal immigration would find themselves better regarded if they worked to expand legal immigration. But we know that's not going to happen, don't we?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseDo you want humanitarian policy, or do you want policy that's dictated by the self interests of the US? If it's the latter, the answer is to remove lotteries and government programs, and allow open borders, encouraging immigrants to come and go as the labor market demands, not as government decrees. Interestingly, this may also be humane policy, not not pitting one goal against the other.
But this is all a moot point, really. There is no current alternative to the DREAM Act. Any gains lost by not passing are not going to be addressed by any alternative proposals in the near future. And certainly not by current immigrant fearing conservatives.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAre you crazy? We have enough home grown uneducated people. Visa lotteries should be focusing on what our own schools are NOT producing... engineers, scientists, physicists, etc... we have enough people that can work at McDonald's.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI tend to agree with Kevin Stevens and JGR here that any talk of immigration needs to begin with a fundamental easing of restrictions, and an acknowledgment that whether one thinks it's right for the US to consider our relationship with Mexico "special" or not, it simply is and always will be due to proximity and some shared cultural history. I think Democrats need to adopt the language of Republicans on this issue. Instead of saying, "No reform until the border is secure," Dems should say, "No draconian action until we devise a fairer, more generous system for legal immigration that allows more people in and more freedom of movement." I think liberals are rightly worried that if we "secure the border" (i.e., militarize it), conservatives will simply then move to make legal immigration even harder, offering it to only the well-connected.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm amazed at the comments so far. It's as if there is no right for a sovereign nation to define itself and make it's own rules. Let me ask you, what number would you stop at for a population cap? 500mil? 1bil? People are so spoiled and think there really is a utopia that can fit the world. Didn't Durbin just amend to lower the maximum age?
No one ever talks of helping a country, it's always 'OPEN BORDERS'. There are other options besides everyone coming here, but it doesn't create voters so it's not viable. Go ahead keep talking about 'trickles' as if the past 30 years hasn't existed. Keep talking about bigots and all this other BS to distract and try to shut down opponents. Seriously, let me know at what number you think no more people can fit within our borders. We can work from there.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI agree with David Frum, Tom Friedman and others that the U.S. needs to allow more immigration of skilled workers from other countries. We need to import what we don't have and need to better enable our country’s future economic growth and competitiveness. This is selfish, but basically a matter of self-preservation.
Low-skilled illegal immigrants, mainly from Mexico, are a totally separate issue. Allowing this to continue as we have in the past with amnesty program after amnesty program clearly enables the perpetuation of the dysfunctional relationship between the United States and Mexico.
The U.S. operates as an escape valve for Mexico’s poor, thereby preventing widespread dissent and upheaval against the long-corrupt Mexican system and government. What’s preventing Mexico from becoming more of a first world country like Canada?
And, the U.S./Mexico relationship enables employers in the U.S. to take advantage of cheap labor from another country from people who have almost zero power to demand higher wages. This depresses the wages of low-skilled American workers and decreases opportunities for low-skilled black Americans who have extremely high unemployment rates. It also allows employers to continue breaking the law with very little punishment (although that seems to be changing somewhat).
The attorney who practices immigration law may be right that the very unequal relationship between the U.S. and Mexico will guarantee that illegal immigration will continue, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay. More effort should be made to stop it or this dysfunctional cycle will continue.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt is a very thoughtful (if cold) analysis, but he treats the immigration policy questions as if they are susceptible to the sort of fine control he describes, when they very much are not. What are the distributional implications of militarizing the land and sea borders, and taking the necessary domestic-policing steps to remove the settled population of illegal immigrants? Sending BICE agents to knock on the doors of apartments in your building is very different from sending the cavalry over the ridge in the vast empty West. I suspect "we" don't have the stomach for that, collectively, however strongly some people feel about it.
There needs to be some deep breath-taking in this debate. We're not quite at a future dystopia yet, people. Our society is dragged down far more by the dead-weight in our local-born population than it is by immigrants coming here to work for us at substandard levels of pay.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSeriously, have any of you considered the ramifications of the relentless onslaught of so many immigrants from VERY different cultures, on our own? No one ever acknowledges the AMERICAN culture, saying stupid things like we're a "Melting Pot", or "Diversity is our strength".
Yeah, well, there may be SOME truth to those things, but the far greater truth is that the AMERICAN culture is one of self sufficiency, and a strong work ethic. That has already been strained with the welfare system and entitlements, and we are feeling the effects of that strain already.
We have far too many immigrants, and native born citizens who see the hard working majority as a source of free money for their own personal leisure, and multi-generational dependency is the norm in many areas, already. Importing ever more poor, unskilled, immigrants who have no attachment to our culture, and who will become too quickly addicted to the free handouts that will inevitably keep them down, is NOT a good thing.
If you see Africa as having some special need, then by all means, send them some of YOUR money. Don't send them a boat ticket to come here and leech off of US forever more. There are already TOO MANY to count, doing exactly that.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe proposed Dream Act needs to be considered realistically. This is massive Amnesty for every illegal alien who can claim, even fraudulently, that they entered before the age of 16 and have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years. The proponents assert that the illegals must serve in the military or attend college. This is not true for several reasons.
The key reason is that any "qualifying" illegal gets 10 years of legal status simply by applying. Of course, in theory applications can be denied. However, past experience shows that blatantly fraudulent applications will be received in massive numbers and readily accepted. Note that the Dream Act specifically forbids the use of any information received in an application for any immigration enforcement purpose. Apparently, the Dream Act imposes no penalties for fraud no matter how blatant. Of course, it is very unlikely that the Obama administration is going to apply a fine tooth comb to any applicant, particularly when they have millions of forms to consider.
The age 16 cutoff is quite significant in this context. Aside from the fact that an illegal who entered the U.S. at age 15 really did grow up in Mexico (or anywhere else), the 16 year threshold makes fraud detection rather difficult. If the cutoff was 10 or 12 the Federal government could reasonably insist that each applicant produce school records to show what age they snuck over the border. By contrast a fraudulent applicant can simply claim that they entered at age 15 and went to work shortly thereafter. Of course, they may have really been 25, but who is to say otherwise?
Once they apply every illegal gets 10 years of legal residence in the U.S. In theory to stay on after 10 years, they have to join the Army or go to college. However, the Dream Act has a "hardship" exemption that anyone can claim. Since even a denied "hardship" claim can be litigated forever, this amounts to "no illegal left behind". The government doesn't have the resources to reject even obviously bogus "hardship" claims given the de fact rule of immigration law ("it ain't over until the illegal wins").
However, the truth is worse. Even illegals who never lift a pencil or a rifle will engage in activities tying them to America over a ten year period. Some will marry. Others will have children in and out of wedlock (very likely the latter). The notion that Congress, the courts, and Federal bureaucracy are going to remove this illegals after a 10 year hiatus is dubious at best. The bottom line is that this a ten year down payment on permanent Amnesty for every illegal who applies with essentially any convenient fictions on his or her form.
The next question is what is likely to be the impact of these illegals on our nation. This topic has been extensively researched and the results are highly negative. A number of references make this point all to clearly.
1. The 1997 National Academy of Sciences study found that each low-skilled immigrant costs $89,000 over the course of his/her lifetime. See External Link
"The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000."
2. There is little evidence that the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of illegals will do much better. Samuel Huntington looked at this subject in his book, "Who Are We". See Table 9.1 on page 234 or External Link
. The bottom line is that educational attainment rises from the first to the second generation and then plateaus at levels far below the national average. For example, even by the fourth generation only 9.6% of Mexican-Americans have a post-high school degree.
3. The Heritage foundation found that low-skill immigrant households impose huge tax costs on Americans. See "The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Immigrants to the U.S. Taxpayer" (External Link
). The summary is
"In FY 2004, low-skill immigrant households received $30,160 per household in immediate benefits and services (direct benefits, means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services). In general, low-skill immigrant households received about $10,000 more in government benefits than did the average U.S. household, largely
because of the higher level of means-tested welfare benefits received by low-skill immigrant households. In contrast, low-skill immigrant households pay less in taxes than do other households. On average, low-skill immigrant households paid only $10,573 in taxes in FY 2004. Thus, low-skill immigrant households received nearly three dollars in immediate benefits and services for each dollar in taxes paid. A household’s net fiscal deficit equals the cost of benefits and services received minus taxes paid. When the costs
of direct and means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services are counted, the average low-skill household had a fiscal deficit of $19,588 (expenditures of $30,160 minus $10,573 in taxes)."
4. Heather MacDonald has written extensively on the bleak realities of mass unskilled immigration. I recommend "Seeing Today’s Immigrants Straight" (External Link
). Key quote
"If someone proposed a program to boost the number of Americans who lack a high school diploma, have children out of wedlock, sell drugs, steal, or use welfare, he’d be deemed mad. Yet liberalized immigration rules would do just that. The illegitimacy rate among Hispanics is high and rising faster than that of other ethnic groups; their dropout rate is the highest in the country; Hispanic children are joining gangs at younger and younger ages. Academic achievement is abysmal."
5. Edward P. Lazear's (CEA / Harvard Economics) paper “Mexican Assimilation in the United States” has a wealth of statistics showing the raw deal from south of the border. Summary quote.
“By almost any measure, immigrants from Mexico have performed worse and become
assimilated more slowly than immigrants from other countries. Still, Mexico is a huge country, with many high ability people who could fare very well in the United States. Why have Mexicans done so badly? The answer is primarily immigration policy.”
See also "Lazear on Immigration" (External Link
). Money quote
"Immigrants from Mexico do far worse when they migrate to the United States than do immigrants from other countries. Those difficulties are more a reflection of U.S. immigration policy than they are of underlying cultural differences. The following facts from the 2000 U.S. Census reveal that Mexican immigrants do not move into mainstream American society as rapidly as do other immigrants."
You can read the rest over at the Borjas blog.
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