The following is a quote from Elizabeth Warren, current favorite of progressive activists and a candidate for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts, which I found via MoveOn:
There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you!
But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.
But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
Notice that the force of Warren’s argument derives from the notion that other people paid for various public goods, and that the entrepreneur in question thus doesn’t have a claim to anything more than a “big hunk,” the size of which shall be determined by “us,” i.e., a committee of the people who paid for various public goods, of what she has earned.
Warren presents us with an interesting thought experiment, which, among other things, raises the question of the distribution of the tax burden. It is often said that virtually all wage earners pay the Social Security payroll tax, which is true. Yet the payroll tax is, at least in theory, linked to Social Security benefits, and not for various other government programs, though of course that hasn’t been the case in practice.
The Tax Policy Center has published a guide to the progressivity of the federal tax burden. Though it is somewhat dated, it gives us a rough indication of how big a share of federal personal income taxes are paid by different groups of Americans. Tax units in the lowest quintile pay 0.4 percent, while those in the second, third (or middle), and fourth quintiles pay 2.3 percent, 7.7 percent, and 17.6 percent respectively.
The top quintile pays 71.9 percent. The top 10 percent pays 55.9 percent while the top 0.1 percent pays 12.3 percent.
If the relevant question is who pays for roads and protection against marauding bands, should we leave decisions to a committee composed of tax units in the top tenth of the income distribution, as they’ve paid the lion’s share when we leave aside Social Security, which can be understood as the purchase (at a steep discount, for now at least) of an annuitized income stream after retirement? That actually sounds kind of ridiculous.
Granted, schools, police forces, and fire forces aren’t paid for out of federal coffers, and many state and local governments rely heavily on regressive sales taxes and property taxes. So if the relevant question is who paid for what, perhaps we can use some kind of assessment of lifetime net tax rates. Who on average is a net contributor and who is a net recipient? And once we’ve made this determination, which won’t be easy, shall we establish that only net contributors have a say as to who keeps how big a chunk of what they earn by virtue of having persuaded others to cooperate with them in building ventures that no individual could build on her own?
I assume that Warren would reject that proposition.
I think it is very, very true that no one in this country, and indeed no one in any country, managed to become rich on her own. Some people become rich by virtue of being born into the right family, or by owning valuable real estate or some other legal entitlement, like a patent or copyright, protected by the state. And then there are people who, in various ways, become rich by serving other people, creating new and distinctive products and processes, etc.
But does it follow that because people don’t generally become rich on their own that we should embrace Elizabeth Warren’s particular set of ideas regarding how much of our earnings we should be allowed to keep?
There is the germ of a reasonable point in Warren’s statement, which is that a market economy is a system of cooperation and that maintaining a system of cooperation costs at least some money. In a society like ours, the system of cooperation costs considerably more money than the system of cooperation in a number of other countries, ranging from the chronically dysfunctional (say, Burkina Faso) to the spectacularly successful (Singapore).
The conservative argument, to overgeneralize, is that our system of cooperation doesn’t work as well as it might because the state — which, let us stress, is only one component of a larger system of cooperation, which involves other components, including shared norms and beliefs that can be undermined or strengthened in various ways — has taken on too many roles, including a number of roles that it hasn’t and perhaps can’t undertake terribly well.
So yes: the entrepreneur in question may well have hired workers educated in taxpayer-funded schools. In some cases, however, and this is increasingly common, the workers in question received the bulk of their relevant education outside of taxpayer-funded schools, whether in independent schools, parochial schools, from parents, or from supplementary instruction, or after K-12 from a college or university or in the form of on-the-job training. For a large number of students, the time spent in school was not time well spent, and the main signal to employers of any value is the mere fact that the student in question had the stamina to endure being badly “educated” for countless hours — long enough to receive a diploma. This is an admittedly dark portrait of public education, and I don’t think that it applies to most students. What is clear is that many employers are profoundly dissatisfied with the quality of the training taxpayer-funded schools offer potential employees, and there are many entrepreneurs who are working to address this pervasive “state failure.”
Moreover, it is striking that a state like Massachusetts delivers a markedly better education, particularly to students from disadvantaged backgrounds, than a state like New Jersey, where public funding levels for K-12 are generally far higher. The rest of us in New Jersey paid to educate workers of the future. Somehow the rest of us in Massachusetts managed to pay less for a much better outcome, which introduces the possibility that that the much of the money that the rest of us are spending is wasted.
So when Elizabeth Warren allows the owner of a factory to keep a big hunk of what she earned, what exactly does she intend to do with the hunk that she has taken as part of the social contract? Will she spend it wisely? I’d submit that this actually isn’t an irrelevant question. We can accept the premise that there is such a thing as a social contract and that we should all do our part for the cooperative venture that is a civilized society. Yet should we then suspend judgment about what is done with Elizabeth Warren’s hunk, or can we take the view that the state is also a party to this social contract and that the state hasn’t been doing its part and that a great deal of evidence suggests that simply giving the state a bigger hunk of whatever we happen to earn in the course of freely and voluntarily cooperating with each other isn’t actually the best or the smartest way to get the state to do its work well?
I think that we should care about the next kid to come along. We should care about her a lot. Here’s the thing: there is someone between the rest of us and that kid. There’s a big machine that somehow takes tax money in one end and imparts various public services at the other end. When we pump money into the box that gives us most consumer products, we get a pretty decent product on the other end, for all kinds of reasons. When we pump tax dollars into the box that is most governments in the United States, I’d argue that we actually don’t get a very good product at all. This is why it helps to look at the guts of the machine, and to see what is working well and what does not.
But there are people who don’t want us to look inside the machine. They certainly don’t want machine to be transparent, to give the rest of us a close look at what actually goes on inside. Elizabeth Warren seems to think that the factory owner who wants to keep a bigger chunk of whatever she earned is the bad guy who needs a stern-talking-to. What if what we really need is to get in there and fix the machine — for the next kid to come along, and also for ourselves?
The real issue (not Warren's strawman about whether taxes should be paid) is the very nature of the social contract she cites. All parties to a contract have obligations. Is the government fulfilling its obligations?
The answer is no, especially with regard to paying forward. The government is actually taking forward: confiscating the wealth of future citizens to pay itself today.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe value of the "services" received by we, the taxpayers, from the tax-takers, e.g. the government, is what is in dispute.
The government is taking money from future generations to pay for its current expenditures, and the "services" it renders are not a good value for the money it has taken.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThis is hilarious! You try to answer Elizabeth Warren's sharp, concise, compelling argument with vague wordy bloviation about "hunks" (was it Scott Brown's centerfold that suggested this word to you?). Wake up! The rich have to pay ***slightly*** higher taxes now. It'll be fine.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseConsidering it was Elizabeth Warren who used the word "hunk" in her "sharp, concise, compelling argument," one thinks you don't even know what she said, much less that you could even explain it.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseLol. So Ms. Warren has no intention of reforming/inspecting the guts of the factory? Isn't that what many of your right wing brothers stopped her from doing with financial regulation? In any case it is the deficit we need to pay off (and isn't that what you all are concerned about?) and I see nobody better positioned to pay off this debt than top 1% who disproportionately gained the most while running up these debts. See? It's easy....no factory guts just debt payments.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHolly Martins was an ineffectual sap, so interesting choice for screen name.
Considering the federal budget is 60% entitlement spending, and another 20% is discretionary, which goes mostly to the same kinds of things, no, I don't think the hated "rich" benefited the most from the deficit.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIf you're a John halt acolyte then yea, an ineffectual sap. Most of us tend to view him as an anti-hero who gets the Barry in the end without giving up his principles. But you wouldn't know about that would you?
And nice way to avoid the question. So shouldn't the people who control most of the money pay the most? Or are you one of those fools who thinks he got rich completely on his won?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHilarious non-answer. Good luck getting rid of those "entitlements." And yea, when the top 1% own nearly HALF the wealth they may have to pay more. See how that works? Should I also cite the stats about how much the top 1% have gained over the last 30 years? But yea....lets cut social security checks and medicaid - genius idea.
And Holly Martins was a sap only to John Galt types. To the rest of us he was an everyman anti-hero who got the baddy in the end without losing his principles.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYea, you don't understand the main point (who has to pay - good luck getting rid of entitlements) or who Holly Martins was (saved the girl, got the baddy, while maintaing his principles at great personal cost). Typical.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseLet's be "clear", OK, Ms. Warren. Roads are built and maintained now on gasoline taxes. I believe that the shipping and transportation companies that pay for huge amounts of gas to move these goods to market pay a lot toward building and maintaining our roads.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGasoline taxes pay for a portion, but not all, of large highway and bridge projects and maintenance, and a portion of that, but not all, is indeed made up of freight traffic, which due to the size and weight of the vehicles contributes significantly more wear to the roadway than a passenger car. City streets in most areas, however, are paid for almost entirely by non-usary fees (property tax, payroll tax, sales tax, etc). I wouldn't feel comfortable coming to any conclusions without specific data, but it would not surprise me if freight traffic was contributing more cost to the system than it was paying into it via gasoline taxes.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI have a thought on the subject of "educated workers".
Ms. Warren seems to be arguing that since the workers' value to an employer derives from an education paid for by the taxpayers, the employer needs to pay up -- pony up money to pay the system back for this education.
It seems to me, by the same token, the reason a worker is able to earn a paycheck in a factory is because he received an education, paid for by the taxpayers. Shouldn't the burden of ponying up money be on the worker who is a more direct beneficiary?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYour questions misses her point. The workers are not trying to act like they shouldn't have to pony up money. The factory owners (aka, the "job creators") are.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusewhat a dishonest column. you note that the top quintile is generating the "lion's share" of tax revenue. and you do not note that they are generating such a share because of their disproportionate income. the capacity to generate an unprecedented share of tax revenue is evidence of the inequality that progressives fight, not cause for rethinking the progressive case.
and surely you know that. what a disappointment. i genuinely thought you were the rare thoughtful, intelligent, and honest conservative. but you're just another ideologue.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAnd there is no possibility that members of the top quintile earn and pay more because they (1) are older and more advanced in their careers, (2) have worked harder, or (3) have worked smarter? Before accusing Mr. Salam of being an ideologue, please explain how your confident assumption regarding the disproportionality of this group's income is not entirely doctrinaire.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMr. Salam, if I understand your position to be that of generally acknowledging Ms. Warren's argument about the importance of public goods, with the addition that many are not working as well as they should and are in need fixing, then I cannot disagree. But the majority of your conservative compatriots are arguing instead for large scale privatization of public goods on the (often false) belief that the private sector is more "efficient." But this is not a way of fixing public goods, it is a way of extracting more and more profit from average users for the benefit of a small group that has managed to get control of the good (sometimes unscrupulously). This will become increasingly clear as the research continues to show that charter schools perform no better than public schools, private infrastructure ends up costing taxpayers more money down the line, etc. I just hope we don't go too far down that road and create too much damage to repair. Let's instead have an honest campaign to fix our public goods and keep them public, and accountable.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI think there are very few entrepreneurs who don't want to pay it forward.
I think there are many American citizens who don't want to pay taxes because we don't feel as though we have any say in how the money is spent. The funny thing is that we don't even have any way of knowing whether our opinions, positions, preferences are even shared, let alone considered.
Lately, I feel more like an employee of an enormous corporation than a responsible citizen with a voice. I don't like what I hear about what my country is doing (or not doing), I don't like that my income is the same as it was ten years ago when everything costs more than it did ten years ago, and I don't like that my rising property taxes don't seem to pay for the schools my children attend -- i.e., there are fundraisers every week.
I don't know what happened, and most days I don't even care what happened. All I know is that it's screwed up and that I don't have time to get involved because I have to work extra hours to make sure that I keep my job.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"...what exactly does she intend to do with the hunk that she has taken as part of the social contract? Will she spend it wisely? I’d submit that this actually isn’t an irrelevant question..."
It's not only not irrelevant, it's critical. Personally I think any argument that government must manage its spending like it's an individual is specious and immature. Government is an entirely different economic entity, borne of its citizens, to serve and protect its citizens. A different economic model must apply.
However, what must apply equally to government is that money is spent wisely. Wise spending habits address short-term and long-term needs. Sometimes you invest heavily now to profit later. Sometimes you cut back now to postpone ensure long-term stability. It's a tricky thing. No political party is better than any other at this, because political parties always think in the very short-term. That's what needs to change in Washington, more than anything -- a commitment by our leaders to think beyond themselves and their party, to avoid dogma, and help us plan our collective future.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"When we pump tax dollars into the box that is most governments in the United States, I’d argue that we actually don’t get a very good product at all. This is why it helps to look at the guts of the machine, and to see what is working well and what does not."
But, honestly, since when have the Republicans even pretended to attempt looking at the guts of the machine to fix what is not working well?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMr. Salam, I've seen you on Bill Maher's show and on Bill Maher's show think you have some interesting and valid things to say, but I think you're likely extending Warren's statement to implications that weren't there.
I don't believe Warren's point implies that there should be no further debate about the way tax-payer dollars should be spent or over the amount and structure of taxes that should be collected.
My interpretation of the quote is that it's a refutation of the idea that any taxation (or at least any progressive taxation) is stealing because it is money that they, and no one else, has earned, and that thus it's not society's business to tell them what to do with it or to tax it.
[I would personally add that if someone wants to build their own shelter, grow their own food and otherwise increase their wealth truly on their own - or even through barter with others that isn't done with U.S. or another society's currency - it is not and should not be taxed. But if someone want to take advantage of the cooperative economic system society has built and deal in American dollars, they are taking advantage of a number of collective institutions and should thus rid themselves of the notion that their economic activity is no one else's business in an absolute sense. That doesn't mean they can't have opinions about what should be the particular structure of the society's tax and spending system; they can argue, for instance, that progressive taxation is bad for motivation, innovation or whatever; they just shouldn't make their arguments in terms of absolutist property rights.]
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