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Diane Ravitch’s Credibility in Dispute
Release the video.

By Jay P. Greene


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For some reason, when a prominent policy expert completely changes her position on an issue, her views are thought to have extra credibility. So when Diane Ravitch, an education historian who served as an assistant secretary of education during the first Bush administration, reversed herself on school choice and accountability testing and became a champion of teachers’ unions, a large number of people who had previously dismissed her opinions began to hang on her every word. Her willingness to switch sides and her reputation as a historian somehow make her a trusted authority in many people’s minds, and that has given her considerable influence in policy debates.

But Ravitch’s credibility has come into question. On her Education Week blog, Ravitch accused a public official, Education Commissioner Deborah Gist of Rhode Island, of gross misbehavior during a meeting they recently had with Gov. Lincoln Chafee and some aides. She wrote:

Gist is clearly a very smart, articulate woman. But she dominated the conversation, interrupted me whenever I spoke, and filibustered to use up the limited time. Whenever I raised an issue, she would interrupt to say, “That isn’t happening here.” She came to talk, not to listen. It became so difficult for me to complete a sentence that at one point, I said, “Hey, guys, you live here all the time, I’m only here for a few hours. Please let me speak.” But Gist continued to cut me off. In many years of meeting with public officials, I have never encountered such rudeness and incivility. I am waiting for an apology.

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The Providence Journal followed up with a story, and Ravitch pressed her claims further:

“Over the past half-century, I have met with many governors, state superintendents, congressmen, senators, Cabinet members, and every president since Lyndon B. Johnson (I met John F. Kennedy in 1958, when he was senator from Massachusetts),” Ravitch wrote in an e-mail to The Journal Tuesday afternoon. “I have never encountered such behavior.”

These allegations, coming from a prominent expert, are the sort of thing that could cost an education commissioner her job, or at least severely compromise her effectiveness. But fortunately for Gist, there are serious doubts about the accuracy of Ravitch’s account. Gist immediately denied the charges, and it turns out that a documentary filmmaker recorded the exchange. The filmmaker has agreed to release the video if those who were present give their permission. Gist has asked for the release of the video, but Ravitch has so far refused to give her consent.

We have good reason to suspect that the video would contradict Ravitch’s account, and not just because Gist’s willingness to release it was met with Ravitch’s refusal. Other people were present at the meeting. In particular, Governor Chafee, who has never been described as a wild-eyed education reformer, backed Gist’s account of the conversation:

I was very glad that Deborah Gist, our Commissioner of Education, was able to join me and several statewide labor leaders for a private conversation with Diane Ravitch during Ms. Ravitch’s recent visit to Rhode Island. We enjoyed a lively discussion about many aspects of education reform. From my perspective, Commissioner Gist comported herself in an appropriate and respectful way at all times during this discussion.

Ravitch’s claim of mistreatment would quickly fade into an unresolvable “they said, she said” if not for the existence of a video of the disputed conversation. Facing increasing pressure to agree to the release of the video, Ravitch’s stance shifted from demanding an apology to offering one:

I reflected on a blog I wrote recently about my visit to Rhode Island. In that blog, I wrote harsh words about state Commissioner Deborah Gist. On reflection, I concluded that I had written in anger and that I was unkind. For that, I am deeply sorry.

Like every other human being, I have my frailties; I am far from perfect. I despair of the spirit of meanness that now permeates so much of our public discourse. One sees it on television, hears it on radio talk shows, reads it in comments on blogs, where some attack in personal terms using the cover of anonymity or even their own name, taking some sort of perverse pleasure in maligning or ridiculing others.

While Ravitch deserves credit for apologizing to Gist, the apology does not clarify whether Ravitch’s account was accurate but hurtful or if it was manufactured and hurtful. What is at question is not whether Ravitch is perfect, but whether she is credible. Fabrication of events is a terribly serious charge for a historian to face, one that any honest scholar would rush to dispel.

Ravitch can easily restore her reputation if she consents to the video’s release and it confirms her account of events. If Ravitch continues to block the video’s release, or if the video obviously contradicts her allegations, her status as a credible expert will be greatly diminished.

— Jay P. Greene is the 21st-century professor of education reform at the University of Arkansas and a fellow at the George W. Bush Institute located at Southern Methodist University.

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COMMENTS   13

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upstater
   05/26/11 09:43

I am an education researcher and I know several people who used to say that Ravitch was very much a climber, not really interested in the subject matter in any substantive way. I first thought that her reaction was an ego-based response, but the tape might show that her characterization was a lie, which would beg the question "why?". Why make this up? Does the union want her out?

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   05/26/11 10:03

Ravitch sounds like someone who is being forced to support a position she doesn't believe in.

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   05/26/11 10:32

It doesn't necessarily have to be a lie to not be true. It's more likely her perception--the comment about "she came to talk, not to listen" suggests it. Sounds like Ravitch was there to give a speech, and Gist wanted to debate the ideas with her, which clashed with her perception of why she was there.

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   05/26/11 10:49

I've read two of Ravitch's books, and dozens of her articles. What has most impressed me about her has been her consistent advocacy for a rigorous, content-filled curriculum.

Ravitch is still a trustee of the Core Knowledge Foundation, whose leaders participated in the development of the K-8 Core Knowledge curriculum. My kids attend a Core Knowledge charter school. I've read a lot about Core Knowledge, and personally seen the CK curriculum - it's tremendous, easily the best K-8 liberal arts curriculum in America.

However, only private and charter schools in my area offer Core Knowledge. All of the traditional public schools are firmly controlled by the "progressive" education establishment.

If Ravitch had her way, there would be no charter schools to offer Core Knowledge. Does Ravitch still believe in CK, or is she looking to receive a "strange new respect" from the education establishment, the NY Times, etc., by abandoning even this belief? If she actually still supports CK, what is her plan to promote it to public schools whose leaders don't know or care to know about it?

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   05/26/11 13:58

Politicians are in some sense journalists, and to they extent they grossly abouse their trust by completely mischaracterizing events, they abuse their office.

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   05/26/11 17:24

"She said vs. She said."

Only there's a video.

One she says "release the video."

The other says "no."

(*SMIRK*)

Case closed.

Oh... and one day that video WILL be made public.

Ravitch is toast.

Any business or organization which hires her (or fails to immediately fire her) is equally suspect.

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   05/26/11 20:04

Diane Ravitch is not a politician, she is an educator, Mike B. She is an "education historian," a teacher at NYU.

Diane Ravitch is for a "rigorous, content-filled curriculum, and is now an apostate of the charter school movement and related ideological allies. Three cheers for Diane Ravitch is convincing and smart. I believe she opposes the recklessness and authoritarianism of the deep-pocket Foundations and political leadership pressing for a frontal attack on public education and teacher unionism.

"Bbots" gets it right saying, "Sounds like Ravitch was there to give a speech, and Gist wanted to debate the ideas with her, which clashed with her perception of why she was there." Like a professional, upon consideration and reflection, she apologized to Deborah Gist. Case closed.

Does the Union want her out? I don't think so. I think the Union is delighted to have the support of a heavy-weight professional, such as Diane Ravitch.

Diane Ravitch, with a long and distinguished career, a climber? Well, she is a New Yorker and New Yorkers are pushy. Not interested in her subject? She certainly has a command of all the studies, graphs, charts, statistical analysis and analytical postulates, doesn't she.

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   05/26/11 22:39

Very weak article. A spat between two women at a political meeting is subject to the perceptions and interpretations of each participant. If Ravitch did overdo it, that in no way discredits her long and substantial scholarly record.

Come on! We need a little critical epistemology here.

How can NR publish such superficial nonsense?

GC

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icc
   05/27/11 02:56

To paraphrase Perry Mason: did she lie before, or does she lie now?

Or, was she wrong before, or is she wrong now?

Or, the Bush Administration paid her to say what she said, who is paying her to say what she is saying now?

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Mark Welch
   06/01/11 13:21

Why doesn't the article name the "documentary film maker"? I don't understand why the filmmaker is insisting on getting Ravitch's "permission" for releasing footage. This is the ONLY article I can find alleging the existence of video footage.

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   06/02/11 07:54

Hi Mark,

The presence of the film maker is confirmed in this reporting By Education Week:

"Ravitch had a brief, private meeting with Chafee, and then sat in on a longer meeting that included the governor, the schools chief, a top aide to the governor, leaders of the Rhode Island Federation of Teachers, and a videographer who a state department of education official said is making a film on school issues Rhode Island."

External Link 

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stotten
   06/06/11 16:20

So interesting how the Right idolized Ravitch she was in their camp (you know, with the Hoover Institute, et al), and now that she's bucking their way of looking at the world all of a sudden her position(s) become(s) suspect.

If this isn't typical of the politicization of education, I don't know what is.

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   06/06/11 17:17

Prof. Totten,‎

I believe that framing issues by classifying people as "Left" and "Right" politicizes the issue rather than engaging the substance.

As it happens, much of the criticism of Ravitch has been coming from people not ‎normally thought of as the "Right." For example, Obama's Secretary of Education, ‎Arne Duncan just said: “Diane Ravitch is in denial and she is insulting all of the ‎hardworking teachers, principals and students all across the country who are proving ‎her wrong every day.”‎

See these pieces by others normally considered on the "Left":

Jonathan Alter ‎‎(http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-03/don-t-believe-critics-education-reform-‎works-jonathan-alter.html )

Kevin Carey ‎‎(http://www.quickanded.com/2011/06/ravitch-denounces-reformers-for-insisting-on-‎‎100-proficiency-and-failing-to-insist-on-100-proficiency.html )‎

Rather than labeling people as Left and Right (and I assume you think Right is the bad ‎group), why don't you pay attention to the substance of the issue?‎

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