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Sex and the Empire State
Losing marriage to sexual liberalism.

An NRO Interview

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Marriage was already in bad shape when New York’s governor rewrote its meaning in the state on Friday night with his signature on the “Marriage Equality Act.” Princeton politics professor Robert P. George, McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and Director of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at Princeton University, who has written and lectured extensively on marriage and conscience rights, the natural law, and public policy (and served on the President’s Council on Bioethics and the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights), discusses the fallout and future with National Review Online’s Kathryn Jean Lopez.
 

KATHRYN JEAN LOPEZ: What’s your reaction to what New York did to marriage on Friday night?

ROBERT P. GEORGE: Let’s examine the matter from a philosophical and historical perspective.

The vote in New York to redefine marriage advances the cause of loosening norms of sexual ethics, and promoting as innocent — and even “liberating” — forms of sexual conduct that were traditionally regarded in the West and many other places as beneath the dignity of human beings as free and rational creatures. Early advocates of this cause, such as Margaret Sanger, Alfred Kinsey, and Hugh Hefner, proposed to “liberate” people from “repressive” moral standards that pointlessly deprived individuals of what they insisted were harmless pleasures, and impeded the free development of their personalities. They attacked and ridiculed traditional norms of sexual conduct as mere “hangups” that it was long past time for sophisticated people to get over. By the early 1970s, their basic outlook had become the mainstream view among cultural elites in the U.S. and elsewhere in the West. Although Sanger was a racist and a eugenicist, though Kinsey was a liar and a fraud, though Hefner was a buffoon, the liberationist view they had championed eventually hardened into something very close to a matter of orthodoxy in elite circles, and liberalism as a political movement went for it hook, line, and sinker. Devotion to “sexual freedom” had been no part of the liberalism of FDR, George Meaney, Cesar Chavez, Hubert Humphrey, or the leaders and rank-and-file members of the civil-rights movement. Today, however, allegiance to the cause of sexual freedom is the nonnegotiable price of admission to the liberal (or “progressive”) club. It is worth noting that more than a few conservatives have bought into a (more limited) version of it as well, as we see in the debate over redefining marriage.

As Sherif Girgis, Ryan Anderson, and I argue in our Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy article, once one buys into the ideology of sexual liberalism, the reality that has traditionally been denominated as “marriage” loses all intelligibility. That is true whether one regards oneself politically as a liberal or a conservative. For people who have absorbed the central premises of sexual liberation (whether formally and explicitly, as liberals tend to do, or merely implicitly as those conservatives who have gone in for it tend to do), marriage simply cannot function as the central principle or standard of rectitude in sexual conduct, as it has in Western philosophy, theology, and law for centuries. The idea that sexual intercourse (the behavioral component of reproduction) consummates and actualizes marriage as a one-flesh union of sexually complementary spouses naturally ordered to the good of procreation loses its force and even its sense. The moral belief that sex belongs in (and only in) marriage, where it is of unitive as well as procreative significance, and where the unitive and procreative dimensions are intrinsically connected (though not in a mere relationship of means to end), begins to seem baseless — the sort of thing that can be believed, if at all, only on the authority of revealed religion. As a result, to the extent that one is in the grip of sexual-liberationist ideology, one will find no reason of moral principle why people oughtn’t to engage in sexual relations prior to marriage, cohabit in non-marital sexual partnerships, form same-sex sexual partnerships, or confine their sexual partnerships to two persons, rather than three or more in polyamorous sexual ensembles.

Moreover, one will come to regard one’s allegiance to sexual liberalism as a mark of urbanity and sophistication, and will likely find oneself looking down on those “ignorant,” “intolerant,” “bigoted” people — those hicks and rubes — who refuse to get “on the right side of history.” One will perceive people who wish to engage in conduct rejected by traditional morality (especially where such conduct is sought in satisfaction of desires that can be redescribed or labeled as an “orientation,” such as “gay” or “bisexual,” or “polyamorist”) as belonging to the category of “sexual minorities” whose “civil rights” are violated by laws embodying the historic understanding of marriage and sexual ethics. One will begin congratulating oneself for one’s “open-mindedness” and “tolerance” in holding that marriage should be redefined to accommodate the interests of these minorities, and one will likely lose any real regard for the rights of, say, parents who do not wish to have their children indoctrinated into the ideology of sexual liberalism in public schools. “Why,” one will ask, “should fundamentalist parents be free to rear their children as little bigots?” Heather’s two mommies or Billy’s two mommies and three daddies are the keys to freeing children from parental “homophobia” and “polyphobia.”  

Now, New York is obviously one of the most socially liberal states in the Union. There are, to be sure, many New Yorkers who reject sexual-liberationist ideology and believe in true marriage, which is why pro-marriage forces in the state were able to put up quite a fight, but they are not well-represented in the elite sector of society and at the moment they lack the powerful political leadership one finds on the other side. There is no Chris Christie at the helm in New York. Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the state’s two most powerful and influential politicians, plainly buy much, if not all, of the ideology of sexual liberalism and publicly lead their lives in accordance with it. Although they claim to be supporters of marriage who merely want to “expand” the institution (or expand “access” to the institution) out of respect for what they regard as the civil rights of people to have their romantic partnerships (whatever their shape) recognized and legitimated by the state, both are reported by New York media to openly cohabit with women with whom they are not married. They do this not in defiance of their stated beliefs about sexual morality and marriage, but in line with those beliefs. Neither supposes that he and his mistress are setting a bad example for children or undermining the public’s faith in important marital norms. As orthodox sexual liberals, neither the governor nor the mayor believes in a conception of marriage in which marriage is normative for sexual partnering; indeed, neither believes in norms of sexual morality as traditionally conceived, even apart from any question about same-sex partnerships. Both regard “civil marriage” as nothing more than the legal blessing of romantic partnerships, and neither gives any indication of ever having remotely considered an alternative view. Both have so thoroughly absorbed the premises of sexual liberal ideology that the possibility of an alternative doesn’t cross their minds. For them, it is all a matter of “us urbane, sophisticated, tolerant, open-minded, defenders of civil rights, against those ignorant, intolerant, hateful homophobes.”
 

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COMMENTS   65

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LinUSA
   06/28/11 12:13

What is distressing is that it is only now, after the laws are passed, that we will begin to have the discussions that should have been part of the process of making the laws in the first place.

As we alter the longstanding notion that the law should confirm and legitimize biology - and instead determine that the law can and should serve to prioritize "personal choice" *over* biology - we will eventually ask what sort of impact might occur if government, or personal choice, rather than biology, gets to decide who is or isn't "family".

What is a person's obligation to the man or woman they make a baby with?

Is it fair to the baby to deliberately create a situation of motherlessness or fatherlessness?

Does marriage serve functions other than that of facilitating the personal fulfillment of the two adults who choose to enter into it?

How does changing the institutional norms and expectations (to accommodate adultery as a reproductive tactic, to accommodate the idea that procreation and marriage aren't necessarily compatible) going to affect the institution's ability to function in the ways we rely on it?

Should the standards of gay rights trump the standards of a child's best interest, or vice versa?

Is adoption supposed to be about providing a needy child with parents, or about providing needy parents with a child?

There are many questions. Most haven't even been asked yet.

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DWT
   06/28/11 16:11

The "unanswered questions" have little to do with the decision that the New York legislature made, as gay people could already adopt children in the Empire State.

Moreover, the fetish for exulting biology over all other considerations here is potentially dangerous to children, and certainly cruel to many families (whether you like to call them that or not). Of course biological parents have duties to their children - and that is a notion firmly entrenched in the law. But by your logic, step and adoptive parents - no matter how loving and committed to the welfare of a child - can ever be part of the child's "family," because they are parents by "personal choice" and operation of law. The converse implication is that any birth parent - no matter how derelict, uncaring, or abusive - is automatically best-suited to raise his or her child, simply by virtue of genetic affiliation.

Put as politely as possible: That's rubbish.

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Chairm
   07/01/11 02:23

DWT you ran from the relevant questions raised in Linn's comment. You admitted that you ran and offered the unsupported excuse that these unanswered questions have nothing to do with impostion of SSM in New York.

As you fled from these questions you tossed over your shoulder a blatant misrepresentation that, within your own comment, instantly transformed into a false dilemma.

You comment revelead that in your view:

1. The list of questions from which you fled must rely (how you did not say) on your mischcharacterization of its underlying logic whereby (in your misrepresentation) biology must be exulted (as you put it) over all other considerations.

These basic questions do not rely on your exagerated misrepresentation. Indeed, you will no doubt demonstrate that you are at a loss to explain how your misrepresentation is even remotely connected to the content of Linn's comment. Instead you are dependant on attacking a strawman of your own making. It is an old rhetorical trick that SSM advocates never fail to utilize.

2. You offered what you imagine to be the logical converse of your own strawman argument: that "derelict, uncaring, or abusive" parents are "best-suited to raise his or her child, simply by virtue of genetic affiliation."

That is not the logical converse of your strawman, let alone a logical implication from that list of questions. Your comment lacks integrity in terms of sound logic and reasoning. You fail on your own claimed terms of engagement on this issue.

Further, the marital law does indeed do something "automatically" that you appear to be against as a matter of pro-SSM reasoning.

The marital presumption of paternity exists in law because the children born of the union of husband and wife are legally presumed (with excellent reasoning based on obvious facts of life) to be the offspring of both the man and woman whose marital relationship was consummated sexually (via the reproductive type of sex acts that are inapplicable to arrangements that lack either a man or a woman).

Marriage is a sexual type of relationship; its public aspect is clearly the basis for the presumption of marital paternity.

The offered logic of SSM is that SSM/marriage cannot be a sexual type of relationship at law for there would be no requirement that the parties to the relationship engage in sexual behavior together (of whatever sort). Besides there is no sexual basis for presuming a man to have impregnated antother man -- with or without a license from the government; likewise, there is no sexual basis for presuming a woman was impregnated by another woman via same-sex sexual behavior -- whether or not the women claim to be homosexually inclined.

Lacking such a sexual basis for the marital presumption of paternity -- which lawfully acknowledgtes the husband the father of his wife's children by positive default -- the one-sex-short scenario, if equated legally to marriage, raises all of the questions from which you have fled.

The marital presumption can be rebutted, one case at a time, based on the same sexual basis for consummation, adultery, and the reasonign against incestuous forms of marriage. And when chldren are abused or neglected there are provisions for government intrusions into the parent-child relationship.

It is only in your limited field of vision that such provisions conflcit fatally with the sexual basis for the marital presumption of paternity and the man-woman criterion by which the law acknowledges that marriage and procreation are intrinsically connected.

The marriage idea unites the sexes and provides for responsible procreation and does both in combination. The SSM idea is a rejection of the marriage idea -- whatever else the SSM advocates might claim are the merits of the SSM idea.

This is about a conflcit of ideas. Conservatives understand that ideas matter. The interview with George demonstrates this very well.

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   06/28/11 12:34

Premarital sex -- for shame!

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Ned Flanders
   06/28/11 12:41

I love how for this guy it's all about "self-satisfied urbanites" and how their arrogant "sexual liberation ideology" instead of focussing on real-world gay people having relationships who can't make medical decisions for each other when they are in the hospital. He just hammers this look-down-your-nose thing that he claims GM advocates have.

Either side of this debate is attempting to make decisions for the other. It's just that the pro-gm side is for a wider range of options so that people can make their own moral decisions. This guy wants the government to make that decision in advance for everyone.

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James McAlvoy
   07/31/11 22:10

Good one - the author is a female. I bet you didn't even take the time to read the whole thing.

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Ned Flanders
   06/28/11 12:58

Another fun recurring theme:

Gay marriage.. it hurts the poor.

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   06/28/11 12:59

Robert George is right most of the way in this interview. But the enemy cannot be both as frenzied and ignorant as he describes them and as well-intentioned as he would admit in some cases.

Their frenzied ignorance precludes real sincerity, and were they ever to have unfettered power, George himself would be at the scaffold quite early in the game. Perhaps his "friends" would even be required to denounce him.

So what's missing here is recognition that we are in the cold stage of a civil war that the Left dearly believes it will win through the sheer power of its "high" cultural weaponry. Anyone who doesn't see through the veil of violence being done to social institutions to the bloodthirsty instincts at its root is kidding himself.

See Michael Burleigh's Sacred Causes for the true lineage and consequences of what these people are about. They have murder in their glands.

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Ned Flanders
   06/28/11 13:07

So, you just reframed a non-violent cultural battle with no spilled blood so far in completely violent terms. A bit inflammatory, no? Would you prefer it got a little more fisticuffs?

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   06/28/11 14:08

If you're referring to my comment: The cold civil war that we are in fact in the middle of in America involves many fronts other than "gay marriage," but the Left marches together on most of them.

No blood spilled, you say? There's been an ocean of blood spilled in the out of sight, out of mind holocaust that the revolting enemy blandly calls "reproductive choice," where "freedom" has inspired the moral agency of everyday Americans to kill their unborn children. If I remember correctly, not even the lunatic eugenicist Margaret Sanger publically condoned abortion, even though her legatee, Planned Parenthood, industrialized it.

As for "fisticuffs," the Left is often violent, its carefully planned "anti-globalization" riots being a good example.

Most impressive, however, is how innocent and worthy the Left believes itself to be. But I think it heading in a direction to match here in America its wonderful record around the world over the past century.

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Boxster
   06/28/11 17:37

Enjoyed your post, as usual. As an aside, I just ordered your book and am looking forward to it.

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Michael K
   06/28/11 13:05

Really hard to get worked up over gay marriage when heterosexuals, I am one, have done such a bang up job destroying it:

1: 50% divorce rates
2: 40% illegitimacy rates
3: Over 5 million heterosexual couples shacking up together

The Pill is a revolutionary an invention as the Guttenberg printing press and one cannot put that genie back in the bottle.

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   06/28/11 13:32

No amount of propagandizing, bullying, screaming and crying can obfuscate the fact that men marrying men and women marrying women is not normal. There are many fine points and lots of ways to dress up the argument, but in the final analysis it comes down to plain common sense.

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Kevin Howe
   06/28/11 14:51

"is not normal."

But is this true? Making pre-modern assertions like this is not sufficient to win an argument.

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   06/28/11 15:21

2% of a whole, by definition, is not normal. And if by pre-modern assertions, you mean thousands of years of human experience/condition, then yes, it is more than sufficient to win the agrument.

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   06/28/11 15:30

Kevin,
If you think Robert George specializes in "assertions" rather than "arguments", I suggest you acquaint yourself with his writings. He is the preeminent American theorist of the "new natural law" pioneered by John Finnis. Being called "premodern" isn't going to faze him, I assure you.

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   06/28/11 16:25

I got a kick out of Kevin's "pre-modern" designation. I assume those human relics who still believe unborn babies are human beings rather than non-viable clumps of cells are pre-modern as well and, therefore, lose the "abortion for the sake of convenience is wrong" argument.

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Ned Flanders
   06/28/11 16:59

Seahawk, when you say, "not normal", I get the impression you don't know a lot of gay people. To me, it's normal, because I bump into gay friends and coworkers all the time. Thing is, gayness is a lot more normal than you think and often pretty bland on a day to day basis.

Gay people don't live their lives like they are in a pride parade (not most). It's just not that different enough from the heterosexual norm to make unnecessary laws discouraging folks from engaging in it. Though I'm not saying that should be the standard or that there should be a standard in our free country.

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   06/28/11 18:38

Ned, your impression is wrong. I know/have known and work/have worked with a lot of gay people. But that is beside the point. Somehow, you've equated "normal", mundane, typical everyday activity (i.e. hanging out at a coffee shop, going to work, buying groceries, etc.) with the very abnormal behavior of two men or two women having sexual relations/feelings with/for one another. The two are not analogous. There is a reason only 2% of the population is gay and a reason that marriage has been defined as being between a man a woman since its inception. And by the way, the real objective of the gay marriage movement is to "normalize" homosexuality with the desired outcome of complete societal acceptance. It's not about "rights". From what I can tell, their campaign has been a success with you.

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John Foley
   06/29/11 17:03

Ahhh, yes. The always-popular "It's not normal. How do I know? Because I said so." argument.

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