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The GOP Roundtable Debate
Charlie Rose, but no rosy economic scenarios.

By NRO Symposium


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The GOP presidential contenders sat around Charlie Rose’s table Tuesday night in New Hampshire for a Bloomberg/Washington Post–sponsored debate and National Review Online has some expert analysis.
 

BURTON FOLSOM
The Republican debaters showed up last night in New Hampshire to discuss the anemic U.S. economy. Mitt Romney was crisp and clear as he described his plan to oust Obamacare (“repeal and replace”), impose trade sanctions on China, and cut tax rates and spending to spur the economy. Herman Cain vigorously defended his “9-9-9” plan as a spur to liberty and economic growth, but in this debate he caught flak from the questioner (“It will reduce revenue”) and from Michele Bachmann and others, who said the new sales tax would give government a chance to expand. But Cain held firm: 9-9-9 would raise productivity, induce more risk-taking, and expand the tax base. Rick Perry focused on creating U. S. energy independence, but had few specifics, and often seemed tentative. He criticized the Solyndra debacle, but defended his Texas program to give aid to tech companies in the state.

The candidates did more jesting with each other than fussing (John Huntsman suggested 9-9-9 was a pizza price). Oddly the sum of their content was better than the parts — Gingrich ridiculed Obama’s press conferences, Bachmann talked about her 23 foster kids, Cain waxed eloquent on how working hard can help you live the American dream.

Romney and Cain will probably gain from the debate, and the rest of the pack will drop back.

Burton Folsom is professor of history at Hillsdale College and co-author (with Anita Folsom) of FDR Goes to War (Simon & Schuster), which was just released yesterday.
 

SAMUEL GREGG
In a week in which two American economists from the non-Keynesian side of the ledger received the Nobel Prize for Economics, last night’s GOP debate gave us some insight into the depth and character of the various candidates’ free-market commitments and the different policy priorities which flow from the various forms of those commitments.

For the most part, the candidates focused upon the institutional background that either impedes or facilitates economic growth: the regulatory environment, tax levels, trade policy, monetary policy, etc. Listening to the responses was a salutary reminder of the gap between America’s free-market aspirations and rhetoric, and the rather different Eurosclerotic economic reality that has slowly enveloped America — and not just over the past three years, but over several decades.

The surprising omission was substantial discussion of the issue of welfare reform and the related question of America’s public debt. While Obamacare was continually criticized because of its costs, that’s only part of the picture. Substantive entitlement reform is indispensable if we want to significantly reduce the spending and deficits that threaten to suck the life out of America’s economy. Addressing this subject is of course very politically risky because far too many Americans are more attached to the welfare state than they care to admit. But if fiscal conservatives aren’t willing to tackle this issue, then who will?

— Samuel Gregg is research director at the Acton Institute. His several books include On Ordered Liberty, the prize-winning The Commercial Society, Wilhelm Röpke’s Political Economy, and the forthcoming Becoming Europe: Economic Decline, Culture, and America’s Future. 
 

CHARLOTTE HAYS
I went into the debate thinking about Fred Barnes’s piece yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, in which he suggested that GOP debaters are at a disadvantage because control of the format is ceded to a class of folks Republicans loathe — i.e., the members of the press. Well, the news from Tuesday night is that GOP candidates are no longer afraid of the liberal media. Charlie Rose and Karen Tumulty were cleverly disguised as questioners, but in reality they were the other debating team.

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COMMENTS   84

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   10/12/11 06:52

After watching several debates one wonders is Herman Cain Mitt Romney’s "man" – a stalking horse to take out any conservative opposition to Romney? Cain rarely attacks his friend Romney and when he does it is all sweet and light; Mitt even tells folks to vote for “great guy” Herman. “We (Romney & Cain) each have our own experiences; he’s a great guy (Cain). Vote for either one of us (Romney/Cain) and you’ll be happy,”

My first instinct is that Romney's is just trying to divide the conservative vote to clinch the GOP nomination by default, but if that’s the case why not something a little more creative? It was Mitt & Herman not signing the pro-life & pro-marriage pledge; Herman stating he was for gun control with Wolfe Blitzer on CNN while Romney has a history of supporting gun control. They’re the only Republicans to attack Rick Perry using a smear piece from the liberal Washington Post. If "conservative" Herman Cain is doing it's not so bad Mitt’s doing it too?

Mitt and Herman are just so cozy with each other. This might explain why Herman Cain a “serious candidate” for President has a negligible organization and seems more interested in his book tour than actually campaigning in Iowa. Some Cain supporters think he’s actually running to be Romney’s VP – what better way to suck up than help undercut the opposition?

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   10/12/11 07:45

I read this with interest and I did like the around the kitchen table format that allowed the candidates to expound their views eyeball to eyeball with questioners who are not members of the family.

Several things struck me that were unexpected; Mr Cain's 'Greenspam' moment (a serious game-changer) and Mr Gingrich's ability to articulate Mr Paul's position better than he could for himself. Mr Paul seems to be at a point where he can no longer 'suffer fools gladly'.

Regrettably, Mr Perry has convinced me he wants to go home where he surely will continue to be a governor of a great state.

Mrs Bachmann is a clear communicator and is a substantive legislator.

Mr Huntsman, again, has a good economic plan but can not seem to sell it.

Mr Santorum, a morally centered and intelligent man but he lacks finesse in argumentation.

Mr Romney surprised me with his wit when he joshed with Mr Rose. Well done.

Just my impressions.

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   10/12/11 08:13
   10/12/11 08:56

I hope you're wrong about Perry who in elections tends to be a slow starter. Kay was trashing him in the last Governor's race & a Ron Paul 9/11 truther was doing well against him at the start of the race too. On election day he easily defeated them both.

In early 1980 Reagan was too old, dogmatic and inflexible. Then he got shelacked in Iowa by G.H.W. Bush. The word was he was finished. Look where that ended. In 2008 McCain, who is closer to BFF's Romney & Cain on the issues, was considered a lost cause and waste of time.

Perry is not the strongest debater, but in retail politics he's incredible and once fired up his speeches work. He jumped in late, moved up too fast, got complacent and is just now shaking out the cobwebs. He has the deep pockets and the tenacity to fight till he wins if he wants to. Even with the Republican press (NRO, TWS, etc.) now in Romney's camp he can still come out on top.

Look how long it's taken Romney to solidify 20% and Cain to climb up. Rick needs to shake it off, put together a solid economic package (not tomes or gimmicks out the Nancy Pelosi national sales tax book) and fix on winning Iowa then South Carolina.

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   10/12/11 07:49

I thought Cain's defense of his "It's your fault you're unemployed" was transparently phony and the absolute low point of the debate.

It says a lot that no one in the field challenged him further on it, especially when their mantra is Obama is personally responsible for everything that's wrong in the world.

If you listen closely to Cain's answers there's the unmistakable whiff of someone who's trying to put one over on you. After all, he's a marketing guy, not a numbers guy, and it shows.

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   10/12/11 07:53

Cain was a mathematician who worked for the navy as a ballistics analyst. I suspect he has at least some small knowledge of numbers....

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   10/12/11 08:15

I agree, even though I really like Cain.

Have you noticed that he always repeats the question in his answer, as if trying to give himself time to think -- which is perfectly fine, but he seems to pretend that he has ready answers when he doesn't. Still, I'm rooting for him, hoping he pans out. Wondering but hoping.

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Perplexed
   10/12/11 08:46

Repeating the question before you answer is something that they teach you in business. Nothing wrong with that tactic.

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Steve Redder
   10/12/11 09:29

Hardcastle:

I am in your camp. I want to like Herman (for so many reasons). But, something is missing...not sure what it is yet.

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   10/12/11 08:43

Most presidents and candidates are "marketers", not "numbers" guys. Their job is to sell their plans, not sit down and write them personally.

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   10/12/11 09:18

By training Cain is a numbers guy, not a marketing guy (masters, computer science).

That being said, Cain's position on the unemployed is correct. This idea that "it's not the unemployed's fault" is facetious. If everyone was laid off due to the bad economy, that's one thing. However, everyone is not laid off and most people quit of their own accord or get fired. Even getting laid off can be prevented, if people make themselves valuable to the company. If the entire company goes belly up, then I would say that is no fault of their own. However, if people also lowered their expectations about what kind of work they are willing to do at a specific wage, many more people will be employed. In that regard, it is their fault they are long-term unemployed.

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Alyce
   10/12/11 12:01

Oh, come on. I am all about taking personal responsibility for your future and career, but in this economy your comments are disingenuous at best. "However, everyone is not laid off and most people quit of their own accord or get fired. Even getting laid off can be prevented, if people make themselves valuable to the company." Really? Are you really so unaware of what's going on? Whole companies ARE closing. Hundreds apply for a single customer service job. People DO lower their expectations and accept work below their pay grade and experience level. Don't be the liberal stereotype of an uncaring conservative.

There are systemic and institutional problems. These problems are hurting many Americans. Fix the problems in a (limited government) way that makes sense, don't blame the people who are affected by them.

(All this with a caveat that of course there are some people who are idiots and refuse to work. These people are NOT the majority.)

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   10/12/11 15:11

"Really? Are you really so unaware of what's going on? Whole companies ARE closing. Hundreds apply for a single customer service job. People DO lower their expectations and accept work below their pay grade and experience level."

They do? Then what's this about "Occupy Wall Street"? Oh, you added in a caveat at the end. So you are aware that not all lowering their expectations are you? People who lower their expectations don't have time to whine about not getting theirs.

Oh, and the institutional and systemic problems WERE instituted by Americans. Americans voted for the politicians that put in place the systemic and institutional problems that are inflicting pain upon them. Who else's fault is it? We fell for the words of politicians who said they could address problems of poverty and make products and services safer through regulation. It wasn't the Chinese who said institute myriads "anti-poverty" programs and make it harder to open businesses.

Recessions are not excuses to not look for new opportunities and to start over.

Trying to "have a heart" is why we are in this mess. We are fast approaching a time when hearts will begin to harden out of necessity and survival.

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consam
   10/12/11 12:13

Yeah Cain isn't a numbers guy. He's a mathematician.

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brk20
   10/12/11 08:02

Romney's answers were robust and decisive - he looked very presidential. Cain didn't take the joke from Huntsman (his only funny one so far) very well and dwelt on it which was unnecessary. Santorum was screaming at times which doesn't fly regardless of the content which is commendable.

I particularly enjoyed the way all of the candidates did not tolerate the false pretenses of so many of the questions from the liberal questioners. Newt showed that could be done in the earlier debates and they all seemed to be picking up on that. Romney even made a good PBS joke at Rose's expense.

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   10/12/11 08:02

Charlotte, Cain might not have the best hair, but he has the 'stache!

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   10/12/11 08:03

I would ask the symposium members to watch the debate again, and to specifically listen to Mitt's responses. At first blush, they sound practiced and polished, "presidential" some might say. However, on closer inspection, he is really saying nothing of substance. During the TARP question and others, he always hedges his bets and is for and against a proposition several times in the same response!

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   10/12/11 08:20

Much of the debate was spent discussing Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan which, among other things, will create a new tax. How exciting is that? While the concept is appealing because it sounds simple and fair, executing the Cain plan will be a nightmare and once the spending addicts in Washington realize how much revenue they can generate with a federal sales tax, it will become the new cigarette tax, only everyone will pay it. I quit smoking because it became too expensive, but I can't quit doing - and buying - those things required to live and function. What's even more astounding than the proposal of a new money source for Congress spend-a-holics is the fact it's being proposed by a GOP frontrunner for President of the United States. Yikes! Perhaps I'll just hibernate until after the election.

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   10/12/11 09:15

"it will become the new cigarette tax, only everyone will pay it. "

No it won't. Do you think that if 100% of the nation smoked that cigarettes taxes would be as high as they are? Of course not! If smokers were in the majority there would be no way that they would have allowed congress to raise their taxes.

The greatest thing about a sales tax is that it is transparent, and fair because it will be obvious to everyone that we all have to pay it. Today, many of the low income and middle class could care less whether or not the 'rich' or corporations are paying high tax rates, but the cost of those taxes are passed onto everyone anyway(embedded taxes). Under a national sales tax the federal government cannot get away with high tax rates because the every citizen will have an obvious stake in the game. In other words, we will all be in this together fighting against high tax rates versus the class warfare schemes of today.

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   10/12/11 09:50

I think this is a fantasy. The first thing the Democrats will do when they have the power to do so is convert the national sales tax into a VAT, and their argument will be "look! it will actually lower the tax you pay at the point-of-sale!" and all the rubes out there will eat it up. Where will your transparency be then? That's not even to speak of the opportunity for political favoritism and corporatism inherent in a consumption tax.

No, I say. Let it be a 15-15 plan (or whatever) and leave the national sales tax on the ash heap where it belongs.

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