So, I watched the debates on Saturday night and Sunday morning — the two Republican presidential debates in New Hampshire. Did you? In any case, I made some notes — will share some of them below.
And let me caution, as I always do, or often do, that the notes are not comprehensive — they are randomish and incomplete. If you like those qualities, come to me anytime!
The geometry of the debates is cruel: If you’re up in the polls, you’re in the center — the center of the stage. If you’re down in the polls, you’re off to the sides. It must be great to be Rick Santorum and migrate to the center. It must stink to be Rick Perry and be forced to the sides.
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Mitt says “take responsibility” several times when he really means “take credit.” Kind of strange.
Santorum says — and I believe this is a verbatim quote — “No one has more experience in dealing with Iran than I do.”
Really? No one? Including the foreign-policy personnel who deal with Iran every day?
All candidates brag. The trick is to keep your bragging semi-plausible.
Santorum criticizes Romney for being just a “manager,” a businessman, not fit to be commander-in-chief and president. He acts like Romney has just waltzed onto the stage from Bain Capital.
This is odd, for two reasons: First, Romney was governor of Massachusetts — right? — so he has public experience as well as private. And he has executive political experience, unlike Santorum.
Second, conservatives don’t usually denigrate private-sector experience, do they? Isn’t that the Democrats’ job?
In attacking Romney, Newt cites the New York Times several times. Over and over, in fact. I have to rub my eyes, and maybe I should have my hearing checked.
The other day, I watched a video in which Romney engaged with an “Occupy” person on the subject of corporate profits. Romney was defending corporate profits. I don’t think I had ever seen a candidate do this. You’re supposed to blast corporate profits or change the subject.
And here Romney is again, onstage in New Hampshire, defending the basics of capitalism: defending it on both moral and utilitarian grounds.
And yet Romney is supposed to be the squish and RINO in the race? Isn’t that what I read in the conservative blogosphere over and over?
Strange . . .
Santorum is very good at slapping down Ron Paul’s absurd and asinine charges of corruption.
He, Santorum, says that his grandfather was a coal miner. He says this rather a lot, I gather. Well, whoop-de-do: Everyone’s grandfather was something.
I remember 1988, when Dick Gephardt was running in the Democratic primaries. He kept going around saying that he was the son of a milkman. He wore it as some great badge of honor.
Reagan was reported as saying, “Son of a milkman? In my community, the son of the milkman was a very big deal. A child to be envied.”
I don’t know whether Huntsman means to condescend. But he comes off as condescending. Maybe he can’t help it.
Huntsman says, “Everybody knows that Congress needs term limits.” Really, does everyone know that? I doubt most Republicans now support that position (and of course the Democrats don’t).
At these debates, Huntsman likes to say that he has “lived abroad four times.” Gee, whaddaya want, a cookie? Are you trying to out-brag Rick Santorum?
Newt handles the “chickenhawk” stuff fairly well, I believe. Ron Paul says what many on the left always say: If you didn’t serve in the military, you can’t support a war. You can oppose one, but you can’t support one.
I think that anyone who thinks this can’t think.
Paul repeats some other grievances of the Left: that black Americans are targeted for drug arrests, targeted for execution, and targeted for war service. When you have Ron Paul around, who needs Mother Jones or Angela Davis?
Am I the last to know that Mitt Romney favors a constitutional amendment defining marriage, in a traditional way (i.e., the way everyone did until about two seconds ago)?
Huntsman seems to congratulate himself on favoring “civil unions.” He preens a bit about this. But then he says he doesn’t favor gay marriage because he’s a “traditionalist.”
Hmm. I have a feeling that, if gay marriage were more popular, he’d support it, strongly — and pat himself on the back for it.
Romney treats Ron Paul with gentlemanly good humor. I’m not sure I could.
Santorum is very clear about the adoption of children by gays: He thinks this issue should be left to the states. He is a federalist here. There should not be a national policy on adoption, he says.
In the case of marriage, however, he says that we should have a national policy, or law. This issue should not be left to the states. Here, Santorum is not a federalist.
I realize you can’t say everything in these little soundbitey debates, but why? Why is adoption a state issue and marriage a national issue? Just ’cause? Just because Rick Santorum got out of bed one day and decided that’s how it had to be? Or is there some principle behind it?
Inquiring minds want to know.
A questioner on the panel keeps saying, “Why can’t two people of the same sex be in a loving relationship with each other forever?” I keep waiting for a particular answer — and it’s Romney who gives it:
“What the hell is stopping them?” (I paraphrase, of course.) “Nothing is stopping them. But the institution of marriage, and the imprimatur of marriage, is something else.”
Obviously.
Newt blasts the mainstream media for concentrating on any right-wing bigotry against gays while ignoring other issues and problems. For example, what about harshness toward Catholic adoption agencies, forced to accept adoption by gay couples or else? How about a little toleration all around?
Bravo, Newt, bravo. Boffo stuff.
Romney says, “When I’m president . . .,” then corrects himself to, “If I’m president . . .” I like that, a lot.
Santorum says that, in the Middle East, President Obama has let America be seen as “the weak horse.” Bingo.
Huntsman challenges him on Afghanistan, taunts him in a way: When will it be time to leave? Santorum answers very well: When our national security is assured (to the extent it ever can be, I suppose).
I’m sure this will mark me as a Communist, but I wince a little when I hear Governor Perry talking about “Eye-rack” and moving “at literally the speed of light.”
"Ron Paul wonders why we’re “involved in so many countries”: Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and some others. He acts like we’re in those places for kicks. We’re just amusing ourselves, looking for trouble. Is he an adult?"
Yes Nordlinger Ron Paul is an adult and unlike you he actually knows what he's talking about. You're an embarrassment Nordlinger.
@William R--- Ron Paul is a joke--and a poor one at that. As for his allegedly "deep" question of why "we're involved in so many countries" I only wish that someone on that platform had referred him to John Donne's definitive answer to that question:
"No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."
An isolationist (and no, he's not a "non-interventionist") in the 21st century is someone already braindead.
They tried SO hard to trip up Romney (and the others) on homosexuality and contraceptives. And, though he came out a bit to the left of where many of us would, he was absolutely BRILLIANT. I wish he were more conservative, and the Salt Lake connection is enough to keep you up a bit at night, but Romney has a good chance to be a very good president, IMHO.
They tried SO hard to trip up Romney (and the others) on homosexuality and contraceptives. And, though he came out a bit to the left of where many of us would, he was absolutely BRILLIANT. I wish he were more conservative, and the Salt Lake connection is enough to keep you up a bit at night, but Romney has a good chance to be a very good president, IMHO.
Chris, sorry, but I don't think not knowing about Conn. v. Griswold is a showing of brilliance. The absence of any knowledge on this constitutional issue shows a glaring blind spot which to me yet again illustrates why Romney is viewed with suspicion and is in it for the executive power and that alone. And his record on homosexuality has been one of accommodation at every turn while he was governor.
I always read Impromptus first; no more. This is your worst work Mr. Nordlinger. Romney is great, with a few token criticisms around the edges while all other candidates are fatally flawed, stupid, cheeky, etc.
If you want someone who can manage the Obama bureaucracy better than Obama, Romney is the man; if you want to disassemble the bureaucracy, it is anyone but Romney.
Ron Paul was disingenuous when he snapped that he was married and he went to Vietnam. Doctors were drafted then and had to serve. Gingrich was not eligible according to the draft rules at that time.
I'd feel a lot better about Romney if he had not said on Fox News that he won't cut taxes on the very, very rich, anyone earning over $200,000. that is, because the rich have done fine and we must help the middle class. If I wanted class warfare and redistribution of wealth.....
Newt didn't get much attention but when he did, he was usually good, except for the NYTimes quoting. He probably wanted to give the impression that even the NYTimes said, but it came off as his endorsement of their opinions.
I noticed that when the questioners asked about the pain they were willing to cause, they didn't ask Newt that one because they knew he what he would do to such a preposterous question.
And yes we must stop having debates with liberal questioners all the time. Does the other side subject itself to conservative questioners?
I think calling Paul Dr. Paul makes at least as much sense as calling plagiarizing doctor of divinity MLK Dr. King, as we all have to do now. As someone once said, MLK's fraudulent doctorate was the least impressive thing about him, while his minsiterial work was the most impressive. He was much better served when we called him the Rev. MLK.
What is really absurd is this cementing of temporary job positions into permanent titles. An MD or other doctorate, once awarded, is always valid. But why do we have to address a one-term governor who quit five years as governor? Or the Speaker of the House from the 1990s as Speaker?
When you meet people like this in real life, it's always a pathetic trait, as with a one-term traffic magistrate from 20 years back who still insists on putting "Judge Smails" on his law firm's letterhead.
Not that I blame Romney or Newt. It seems to originate with the media.
I couldn't agree more. Candidates should be addressed as "Mr." or "Ms." or "Mrs." I firmly believe that calling the different candidates by different titles has a subconscious effect on the voters; referring to them equally eliminates that.
I never understood why Alan Keyes, who spent five minutes as an envoy, has to be addressed as "Ambassador Keyes" for the rest of his life. Even a Ph.D. is only to be referred to as "Doctor" in an academic setting, according to Miss Manners.
Agreed. But I think the worst professional honorific is "Coach", particularly when it is used after the fact by people who never played on "Coach's" team.
Mr. Nordlinger forgot some of Gingrich's jokes on Saturday night, such as Pres. Obama's sincerity in trying to remake America into a European-style, etc. I laughed out loud, and I noticed much of the audience did as well. When Newt is good, there is no one better ...
Say, Jay, you’re too hard on Santorum. I know, you think he brags and you haven’t forgiven him for crying about being shunted off to the side in earlier debates. Unless and until he becomes annoying as a front-runner, I’m willing to consider that behavior scrappy, something he had to do to fight for a chance to be heard.
Some specific responses:
Santorum says — and I believe this is a verbatim quote — “No one has more experience in dealing with Iran than I do.”
Really? No one? Including the foreign-policy personnel who deal with Iran every day?
Here is what Santorum said, in context: “Well, we need a leader, . . . someone who, you know, has the experience to go out and be the commander-in-chief. I’ve experienced in eight years on the Armed Services Committee, I managed major pieces of legislation through the House and through the Senate on national security issues, like Iran, which is the most -- you want to talk about the most pressing issue that we’re dealing with today? It’s Iran.
“And as Newt’s talked about many times, there’s no one that has more experience in dealing with that country than I do.”
Obviously he meant that he has the most experience among the candidates.
You say, Santorum is very clear about the adoption of children by gays: He thinks this issue should be left to the states. He is a federalist here. There should not be a national policy on adoption, he says.
In the case of marriage, however, he says that we should have a national policy, or law. This issue should not be left to the states. Here, Santorum is not a federalist.
I realize you can’t say everything in these little soundbitey debates, but why? Why is adoption a state issue and marriage a national issue? Just ’cause? Just because Rick Santorum got out of bed one day and decided that’s how it had to be? Or is there some principle behind it?
I believe the principle, to which he did allude, is that we can’t have people who are married in one state move to another and not be married. If we are to have a common culture, we need a common definition of marriage. If there are states that don’t recognize out-of-state adoptions, I have never heard of that. Furthermore, single people and pairs consisting of brother and sister or maiden aunts have long been able to adopt, so recognizing out-of-state adoptions by unmarried pairs (without inquiring into their sex lives, one would hope) would not redefine adoption.
Rick Santorum has a phrase for declining to run for reelection: “bailing out.” If you don’t keep running for office, you are bailing out on people.
I could not find anything at all about this in the debate transcript, but I also recall his talking about that at some point – maybe in a different debate? But I believe he was responding to Romney’s charge that Santorum was a lifelong politician. Santorum has pointed out that while he ran for reelection at a difficult time, Romney chose not to run (in Santorum’s estimation) only because he knew he risked losing. Not such an unfair point in that context.
Another point about the "marriage" thing: the Constitution specifically says that marriages from one state must be recognized in all other states. Now, I'm quite sure that the Founders never imagined that some states would decide to recognize a relationship between two men or two women as a marriage, but none the less the plain language is there.
Thus, it seems to me that if we don't want gay marriage (and I'm not sure whether we do or not), it has to be done at the Federal level, or we have to disregard the Constitution. Otherwise, it can't be confined to one state.
Painful to hear Mitt Romney stumble on his English — rare for him.
I didn't hear him stumble in the recent debates, but I have been surprised to hear him use the odious "my wife and I" construction (or something similar), following a preposition. Jay, you give some solecisms a pass that I don't; I ascribe such lapses to your forgiving nature. But please stand firm with that one. The alternative is unbearable.
Speaking of Romney surprises, I was pretty much amazed to hear the Harvard Law grad say he didn't know whether states could constitutionally ban contraceptives. His overall response in that exchange was great, but how could he not know (or at least have an opinion) about Griswold v. Connecticut's penumbras and emanations?
Hardcastle, I just posted regarding the contraception issue and just now saw your post. Your the only other person I know who was also taken aback by Mitt's lack of knowledge on that issue. Thanks for pointing it out.
Could we PLEASE stop accepting and using the Left's memes? "You didn't serve, so you're a chickenhawk," "if you ever ran a business, you fired people for profit", and the silliest of all, "they only attack us because of what we have been doing to them."
Give me--give us all--a break.
The military won't take every volunteer, and if you are in certain career tracks or were married with children back in the 60s, serving in the military could be an ordeal (and I'm speaking as a Vietnam era military brat and as a veteran in my own right). If you have certain health issues, they just won't take you, regardless of your other qualifications. As a taxpayer and a citizen, you still have a right to an opinion about military policy whether you have ever been allowed or wanted to serve.
The older and bigger a business gets, the more bloated with bureaucrats and hangers on it becomes. Sometimes, you have to get rid of them so that the productive workers can make the business profitable again. That's life. And by the way, isn't that how most of us would like to see most of our government departments treated by the incoming Republican administration?
Finally, for Dr. Paul and his supporters, a dose of reality: the United States is so large and economically powerful that whatever we do, someone benefits and someone else doesn't. Some people actually lose out because of things we do, and it is unavoidable. As long as we do business outside of our own borders, we need a military strong enough to protect our interests, and as long as we are the biggest and strongest economy, people are going to hate us because of our prosperity and freedoms, and they will attack us when they think that they can get away with it.
Turning the other cheek is a personal decision, and no responsible head of state has the right to decide not to protect his nation's people or their interests. That alone disqualifies Dr Paul in my book.