6/01/00 10:25 a.m.
Rosie and Mike Speak
Interviews with O’Donnell and Douglas.

By Jay Nordlinger, NR's managing editor

or his piece “Rosie O’Donnell, Political Activist,” published in the June 19 issue of National Review, Jay Nordlinger interviewed Rosie O’Donnell, as well as the man she calls her idol — Mike Douglas, the former TV-talk-show host whose show Rosie took as a model for her own. Here, you can peruse excerpts from those interviews — or click to the full story.

ROSIE O’DONNELL

ON HER TITLE, “THE QUEEN OF NICE”
I am not the Queen of Nice. That’s what Newsweek said about me when they put me on their cover. I have serious and strong viewpoints. Watch my HBO shows, for example. See what I say about Woody Allen and O. J. Simpson.

ON MIXING ENTERTAINMENT AND POLITICS
I have a responsibility as well as an opportunity to speak to millions of people on a daily basis. It’s sad that celebrities’ opinions are given so much weight, but they are, in the culture we live in, and when you make the kind of money that celebrities make from the support of society, you have a responsibility to give back.

I always knew, even as a child, that if I were ever in a position to have an effect on society, I would use it to benefit kids.

I’m not a journalist. Anyone who takes my word as the word is wrong. I happen to have a TV show, and I choose to use it.

I do everything I can to use my celebrity for good, and whether you think that’s right or not, you have to know that.

ON PROVIDING EQUAL TIME
If we were doing a news show, we would give equal time, but Hillary has been on as First Lady. I can understand the concern, but I don’t know that anyone from Giuliani’s campaign would have wanted to be on the show. We did have the other side with Tom Selleck, as badly as that turned out. Neither of us was particularly proud of that, but I think he was brave to come on and discuss the issue with me-and that is the other side.

ON GUNS
In a perfect world, I would love it if we didn’t have any handguns, but that’s not what I’m striving for politically, nor is it attainable. That’s an extremist view.

I’m not against anyone having a gun, as long as it’s licensed, registered, and has a child-safety lock. Anyone who wants to have one, can. I don’t think that gun owners are the enemy. I don’t think they’re evil. But gun deaths are an epidemic.

The NRA cowers behind the Second Amendment. [Chief Justice Warren] Burger said that the Second Amendment is the biggest fraud that has ever been perpetrated on the American public. A state militia is what it says, and when they quote it, they leave out the first twelve words-twelve! There are twenty-seven words, and they all count!

ON WHETHER THE NRA CARES AS MUCH ABOUT CHILDREN AS SHE DOES
I would say, maybe their own kids, but not kids in general. The only life that is important to them is white, Republican life. Regardless of skin color, it offends me when someone is shot dead in America.

[The NRA’s position] is based on financial gain, not patriotism or love of children.

ON CHARLTON HESTON
I don’t want to take his gun from his cold, dead hands, or his warm, live ones. That’s not what we’re asking for. Such an extreme view will never lead to compromise.

ON COLUMBINE
Until then, I wasn’t very immersed in the gun issue. Child advocacy was my thing, and it wasn’t on my mind. I didn’t know who Wayne LaPierre was [he’s head of the NRA]. I felt spiritually called to the table. There’s a part of the Mass — I don’t attend now, but I used to, as a kid — that goes, “This is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are they who are called to His supper.” And I thought, “Those kids are like the sacrifical lamb,” and it called me to the supper.

ON THE AFTERMATH OF HER DUST-UP WITH TOM SELLECK
Three or four people [who were to be guests on the show] canceled, and one other person, a country-western singer, called me [to be sure that all would be peaceful].

ON WHETHER HER BODYGUARDS CARRY GUNS
The security people who work in my home do not have guns. The statistic is that you’re three times more likely to be a victim of violence if you own a gun. That’s why I choose not to have them in my home. But in public places, my security people, who are off-duty policemen, have guns.

ON ABORTION
I am pro-choice — but I personally would never have an abortion. The same is true with guns. I recognize the right of others to own one, but I myself would never own one.

ON BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON
I think that Bill Clinton is a phenomenal leader. But I have severe disappointments in his personal ethics. He did disappoint me in that way. I was not very pleased with the way he handled that situation [the

Lewinsky affair]. I lost a tremendous amount of respect for him during that, and it has not been recovered. I haven’t forgotten, nor will I. But that’s a code of shame on him, not on Hillary. If a child has been abused by the father, it’s the father’s fault, not the kid’s. [Did she lose no respect at all for Hillary, given her wild accusations of a “vast right-wing conspiracy”?] I believe she believed her husband. I don’t believe for one minute that she sat on the Today show [where the First Lady alleged the “conspiracy”] knowing the truth of that situation. I believe her husband lied to her, as he did to everyone else, and that she found out only later that he’d betrayed her.

ON THE ARGUMENT THAT RUDY GIULIANI HAS MADE NEW YORK SAFER, BETTER
That’s what a white conservative who’s rich would say, but not someone in a poor neighborhood, by any means.

ON CELEBRITIES WHO DON’T SPEAK OUT
I was at a Joni Mitchell concert recently, and it was at the height of the Elián González controversy. Some other celebrities and I filed in, and the press was there, and they asked us what we thought. And everyone did the candidate’s shuffle-a little to the left, a little to the right. I said to them later, “Come on, don’t you have an opinion?” The truth is, most public figures don’t take a risk.

ON MONEY
It is very hard to get money out of celebrities for charity. I never felt that it was my money to begin with, so it was easy to give away.

THE ONE QUESTION ROSIE WOULDN’T ANSWER
Reports Jay Nordlinger: In the eighth grade, Rosie got into an argument with her 8th-grade social-studies teacher over amnesty for Vietnam War draft dodgers. Rosie refused to say which side she took, as the issue did not involve children (who are her main cause). She did note that the last thing she needed was to hear from families of Vietnam servicemen.

MIKE DOUGLAS

ON HIS SHOW AND POLITICS
We dealt with controversial issues. We didn’t set anything up, but we did have our share. We had Malcolm X on-he was scary-and Martin Luther King.

I think there’s a risk to going political. First of all, there are so many nuts around today — they could see you in a restaurant and hit you or something, if they don’t like what you say.

I myself was apolitical on the show. I always had the feeling that, if I said something about this person or that, I’d be alienating half of my audience — or maybe more than half. I didn’t think [voicing political opinions] was entertaining, and I still don’t.

[If a guest made a political point] I couldn’t even say, “I agree with you.” I felt I had to remain neutral. That’s the difference. As a professional matter, I didn’t think it was right.

If you have a platform, you have to use it responsibly. If you have the one side on, you have to have the other side — absolutely. Oh, God, yes, you need someone on the other side. And if you have one candidate on, you should have them all on. Otherwise, it’s not fair. You’re showing a bias.

ON ROSIE AND TOM SELLECK
That poor guy: Rosie was really loaded for bear that day. I wouldn’t call it sandbagging, but it was close.

ON ROSIE AND HILLARY CLINTON
She has Hillary Clinton on, and a lot of people don’t think too kindly about that lady — that’s what I’m talking about. Half of the people are turning her off, and the other half is pleased.

ON THE FACT THAT ROSIE HAS HAD HILLARY ON HER SHOW FIVE TIMES
You think she likes her?

ON ROSIE’S ATTACKS ON RUDY GIULIANI
I have to tell you: I don’t live in New York, but I get there every now and then, and I’m telling you, that man has done wonders for that city. There’s a visible change when you come to New York now. Before, it was an absolute pigpen. So I think her comments were out of place, myself. I love Rosie, but I think that was wrong.

ON THE INFLUENCE OF CELEBRITIES ON THE PUBLIC
I don’t think the people take their cues from entertainers. I don’t think they take them seriously at all. I really don’t, never have. That’s why I don’t understand why Rosie’s doing this. She’s so good, so bright — why is she doing that?

ON THE LOVE OF CELEBRITIES FOR BILL CLINTON
They’re all on Bill Clinton’s side. After what this man did — I can’t understand that. I think he disgraced the office, and I don’t know if we’ll ever get that dignity back. At one time, you were so proud when the president and his wife went abroad. But not any longer. I know Bill Clinton is a very bright man and all, but — say, is it possible to be bright and stupid at the same time? Imagine a Rhodes scholar going and doing what he did! They ought to have a sign on his door: “Discreet.”

ON FACING A THREAT AGAINST HIS FAMILY
When I had my television show, we had a kidnap threat on my youngest daughter. I had a driver for her, and I got her a gun permit. You never read anything about it, because I wouldn’t let anything like that out, but we were really uptight about it. I felt that her guard had to be armed. In fact, I was told by the mayor of Philadelphia that I myself should carry a gun. I didn’t want to do that, and the mayor said, “Well, then your daughter should.” So we had her driver carry a gun. I felt that it was necessary.