For nearly three weeks, the Biden/Clinton/Obama policy concerning the tottering Mubarak regime was contradictory, incoherent, and predicated entirely on the perceived pulse of the demonstrations. Finally, the confused administration seemed to have realized that U.S. foreign policy must center on long-term support for the non-violent transition to secular consensual government, rather than hour-by-hour, very public assessments of Egyptian individuals. To the degree that individuals thwart constitutionality (quite a different thing from plebiscites), we should be opposed; to the degree they aid it, we should be supportive. That way, we at last dispense with the embarrassments of “Mubarak, a dictator/not a dictator, should/should not/sort of should not go.”
Many other questions are not being asked in the general euphoria over Mubarak’s demise. Why are the more oppressive governments of Syria, Iran, and Libya not subject to the same degree of popular unrest that is said to be surely spreading to Jordan or the Gulf? Is it because for all the authoritarianism of a Mubarak or a Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, there was never the threat of a genocidal Hama, or thousands perishing on the proscription lists under a Khomeini, or international assassinations of dissidents in the Libyan manner? (Would Egyptian-like protests ever have deposed Saddam and his Baathists [cf. the failure in 1991 after the Shiite/Kurdish uprising]?) Does the greater anti-Westernism of a Syria or Iran counterbalance its oppression in the minds of the populace? Much of this reminds me of a Gandhi being fortunate, to paraphrase Orwell, that he was rebelling against the British, and not Germans of the Third Reich.
And does the West invariably keep silent about Iran (cf. spring/summer 2009) because in some strange way, in Western eyes, its virulent anti-Americanism lends a veneer of authenticity, of genuineness, even as we confess that the theocracy has lost popular support — while we assume that Mubarak’s alliance de facto made him more suspect in our eyes? (Would CNN be euphoric at news that the streets of Havana are in uproar?) Is the old Jeane Kirkpatrick Cold War calculus relevant — totalitarian, statist regimes exercise a degree of control that allows them to outlive strongmen and authoritarians?
There are wages to our belated idealism. We all admire America’s current professions of support for human rights — and the apparent end to the reset/realist Obama policies of the last two years — but soon some will ask for consistency. Why do we welcome the demise of a Mubarak, but keep quiet about a Castro or Chávez? Are Cubans freer than Egyptians? Did a Mubarak have more blood on his hands than a Castro? Why celebrate the freedom in the Cairo streets, but help facilitate its growing suppression in Moscow? If we are, admirably, to privilege democracy in the case of Egypt, then surely such ideological tilting must apply to democratic Israel over its autocratic neighbors, or democratic India over autocratic Pakistan, or democratic Colombia over autocratic Venezuela, and so on.
Much has been made of Western social-networking technology, whose entrance in the Arab world has ignited popular outrage over the absence of the elements of civilized life — decent housing, plentiful and safe food and water, effective sewerage, available employment. But how odd that brilliant Western technology — text messaging, Skypeing, iPhones, Google, Facebook — can facilitate the furor over endemic poverty and political oppression, but has so far been unable to materially alleviate the conditions of Middle Eastern poverty — as in novel, inexpensive methods of creating housing, cheaper energy, more plentiful food — that might trump the cultural and political impediments to wealth creation. We can spread Facebook page making to create anger over poverty, but not comparable Western innovations to more directly alleviate poverty.
Few will shed tears for the demise of Hosni Mubarak. But his departure was not the result of an overt reform agenda, a new constitution, or even a group of new visionaries. It was ad hoc furor. So the present coup in Egypt is not the beginning of the end of the revolution, but merely the end of the beginning. Shortly we are going to witness a long period of revolutionary fervor, as small numbers of well-organized zealots, including clerical interests, vie for power. The latter’s ascendance will be marked by disavowals of political ambition, constant organizing for that very purpose, embrace of violence while professing renunciation of violence, and courting of Western interests publicly while privately mobilizing against them.
So let us reflect for a moment on the revolutionary era in Iran to remind us that the end of freedom there was not instantaneous, but insidious. Massive demonstrations broke out against the Shah of Iran in January 1978 — similarly characterized by the prominent role of the middle and upper urbanized and Westernized classes. He was forced to flee Iran almost a year later, on January 16, 1979. The Ayatollah Khomeini arrived in Tehran shortly afterward, on February 1, 1979, disavowing any political ambitions other than “spiritual guidance” — as he was showered with positive appraisals from academics and other “Middle East” experts.
About another year later, on January 25, 1980, Abulhassan Bani-Sadr was elected president of Iran by an overwhelming margin — to expressions of joy that a sort of European-like socialist republic had replaced the Shah’s crass cowboy westernization. He ruled for a little more than a year and a half, then fled for his life from Iran on July 28, 1981 — his reign characterized by pitiful demonstrations of anti-Americanism designed to curry favor with the murderous Islamists. The entire revolutionary period between January 1978 and July 1981 was characterized by two general developments: repeated assurances from the Ayatollah Khomeini that there would not be a theocratic government, and insidious, constant erosion of secular government by Khomeini’s clerical followers.
In other words, when the crowds go home and return to their jobs, the most zealous, organized, and ruthless will go to work to consolidate power. Let us hope for the best — a secular, pro-Western constitutional republic backed by a professional military — and prepare for the worst — two to three years of revolutionary fervor as Islamists, month by month, gain control of the Arab world’s largest state after coming to power by one man, one vote, one time.
— Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and the author, most recently, of The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern.
To say the crowds protesting in Egypt are naive is an understatement. Becareful what they wish for. Becuase the Muslim Brotherhood knows exactly what it wants.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"I like the Brotherhood most, and they like me,” said Sally Moore, a 32-year-old psychiatrist, a Coptic Christian and an avowed leftist and feminist of mixed Irish-Egyptian roots. “They always have a hidden agenda, we know, and you never know when power comes how they will behave. But they are very good with organizing, they are calling for a civil state just like everyone else, so let them have a political party just like everyone else — they will not win more than 10 percent, I think.”
Ms. Moore is an example of what happens when one does not study history enough.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseLiberals vocally oppose dictators...as long as those dictators are pro-American. There will be no demand by Obama for democratic uprisings to supplant Khamanei, Castro, or Chavez.
Obama has yet to condemn the Muslim Brotherhood, but has found ample time to vilify the Jewish State.
Obama's foreign policy expertise has delivered Lebanon unto Hezbollah. America's ally in Egypt has been deposed. The King of Jordan will soon follow.
Obama treats America's friends as enemies and vice versa.
The international influence of the United States is in freefall.
That satisfied laughter you hear in the background comes from Jeremiah Wright, who must be extremely proud of his protege.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGandhi wasn't rebelling for rebelling's sake. Gandhi was just one part of an entire Indian movement that was responding to the starvation of millions by an evil kleptomaniac empire clothed in a garb of sophistication. George Orwell's thesis is ridiculous and self-serving. Gandhi knew his enemy and his tactics were in response to the nature of the British. But if it was the Nazis, Indians would have found another way to be free- life finds a way, always.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseLike we whack the folks in Afghanistan and Pakistan, using unmanned predators, who are deemed our enemies, we should eliminate anyone, who we dislike, that is emerging as a future leader in Egypt. At least let the folks we support know they have our blessing and aid to carry out the deed themselves.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"U.S. foreign policy must center on long-term support for the non-violent transition to secular consensual government"
If the raisin farmer could provide one iota of evidence that these two goals are not contradictory, it would be greatly appreciated. To the extent that governments in the Middle East are "consensual" they will rapidly cease to be "secular," as evidenced by Turkey.
I also love that the raisin farmer is mocking Obama for basing his policy on events (For nearly three weeks, the Biden/Clinton/Obama policy concerning the tottering Mubarak regime was ... predicated entirely on the perceived pulse of the demonstrations) instead of meaningless abstract ideological conceptions such as "freedom" and "democracy."
When, exactly, did it become "conservative" to promote ideology at the expense of real-world considerations and the concrete interests of the United States? At this point in time, NRO is one step away from calling upon the peoples of the world to unite while reminding them that all they have to lose are their chains.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse'The Raisin Farmer', huh?
Tell us Mark, in what discipline did you earn your doctorate?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMark Adomanis: Your puerile, self important, name calling doesn't really impress the adults.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseFew here are old enough to remember the reports being written by American journalists when Fidel Castro rolled into Havana. But I do. They were jubilant that a "dictator" had been overthrown, and saw only freedom and democracy down the road for Cubans. Castro was a hero, and he had taken down a brutal dictatorship, and now, Cubans would have an opportunity to rule themselves (in democratic style), rebuild their nation and prosper.
On October 24, 1963, John Kennedy told Jean Daniels, a journalist who was about to visit Cuba, and Castro, this:
"I believe that there is no country in the world, including the African regions, including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime. I believe that we created, built and manufactured the Castro movement out of whole cloth and without realizing it."
Kennedy went on to say:
"I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and expecially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption."
JFK, like so many other politicians, saw the Cuban Revolution, and Fidel Castro in particular, as a way to release Cubans from their Batista chains. He was wrong, and by Oct. 1963, JFK knew it, as did we all. The rest is history.
VDH has addressed the Iranian revolution, and how it, although initially thought to be a good thing (we have read the Times reports on this board recently) only for it to quickly go terribly wrong.
So while our media cheers for the Egyptians that took to Tafrir Square, demanding "freedom" and the ousting of Mubarak, I simply see history that is leaning toward repeating itself.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHa! Ad hominem invective progresses from Water Usurper to the inglorious Raisin Farmer. Love it!
“mocking Obama for basing his policy on events.”
Yes, because a “policy” does not consist of a daily, successively contradictory series of reactions. Our old friend the Raisin Farmer got that right.
“If the raisin farmer could provide one iota of evidence that these two goals are not contradictory”
“democratic Israel over its autocratic neighbors, or democratic India over autocratic Pakistan, or democratic Colombia over autocratic Venezuela”
Count that as iota one, iota two, and iota three under the Raisin Farmer’s tree.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI've never believed in conspiracies, I'm not at all a ''birther,'' and I don't even think Obama wants to turn the U.S. into a Socialist Republic.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI did, however, experience a shiver this morning when reading the NYTimes' ecstatic coverage of Mubarak's political demise. What if Obama wanted Mubarak out as part of an encirclement of Israel, having done nothing to stop Hezbullah from taking over Lebanon.
If, as I suspect, within a year, Egypt turns into an Islamic state, and Palestinians overthrow the Jordanian monarchy, Israel will have stated, increasingly well-armed enemies on three sides, and the Mediterranean at its back. And, of course, there's still the Iranian threat, which has apparently been pushed back a few years.
Some pro-Israel people I know take solace from that nation's nuclear capability, but I've always wondered about that. First, Netanyahu may well be defeated for re-election in the forseeable future and might be succeeded by a P.M. unwilling to order a first strike. Second, in a region so small, how do you prevent desert winds from a blowback into Israel?
I hope I'm all wrong, but I've come to believe that Obama represents a clear and present danger to Israel.
The post of Mark Adomanis is one of the clearest pieces of evidence around that Progressivism is based on philosophical Pragmatism. (Another is the actions of those whom he praises while criticizing, ad hominem fashion, the "raisin farmer.")
Observe, in support of my assertion, that to such a person concepts like "freedom" and "democracy" are "meaningless abstractions."
Funny, isn't it, how those abstractions led to the United States in the 19th century - which achieved more real progress for real people than all other countries in history combined, and in just 100 years - yet abstractions like "Divine Right of Kings" and "From each according to his ability to each according to his needs" and "Allahu Akhbar" achieve the exact opposite.
Even the little man that Mr. Adomanis praises understands the power of ideas. It's true that ideas not based on real-world facts are meaningless abstractions. But bare facts, without being linked to the right ideas - as Dr. Hanson shows here - are equally meaningless, at least as a guide to wise action.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAhaha! Gordon-Pasha has it absolutely right. But is there really any need to defend VDH from the sidelines (except for his refusal to proofread)?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseCharles,
The raisin farmer wasn't simply saying that America should tend to prefer democratic over autocratic governments, he was saying that America's goal in the Middle East needs to be the simultaneous promotion of secularism and democracy. As anyone with more than a passing knowledge of the region knows, though, there is inherent tension (if not outright conflict) between these two concepts.
Look at Iraq and Turkey, long the most "secular" polities in the Middle East. The second that these two countries started to become more democratic, their politics became dramatically more Islamic in tone and content. This is neither surprising, considering that 95+% of their populations are nominally Muslim, nor particularly alarming to since the inner workings of Turkish or Iraqi politics are of no great concern, but it is simply a fact that the two most democratic countries in the Middle East are seeing a dramatic increase in religion's political role.
If US policy in the Middle East aims to support secularism through democracy (or democracy through secularism) it will be fatally flawed and ineffective. The raisin farmer doesn't seem to realize this, he merely wants to mock and belittle Obama.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseNo idea what will happen next.....but it feels more like Iran 1979 than it does Boston 1775.
I did not know VDH was a raisin farmer. I like raisins.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSo your suggestion of the premise for our historic first Islamic apostate president’s policy in the Middle East should be that Mohammedans have an inveterate attachment to their life of slaves to their religion? And his policy: shari’ah can be their only master?
GEN MacArthur wrote the Constitution governing the Japanese to this day. The corollary to your assertion that “secularism through democracy (or democracy through secularism) it will be fatally flawed and ineffective” would require that armed forces subdue countries in the Middle East by means of a humiliating unconditional surrender, after which we set forth in their place Republics devoid of multicultural-relativism—but founded in the image of our own institutions as originally conceived.
You’ll also enhance your credibility by referring to VDH as the widely respected conscious of Western statesmanship who also finds time to raise raisins.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMark:
1.) It's not OK to mock and belittle Obama (which VDH doesn't really do but let's just pretend he does), yet it is super duper OK for you to do it to VDH?
2.) Recent poll showing that Muslims prefer secular government:
External Link
3.) Turkey has had a secular government since 1923, or roughly 2,777,009,488 seconds, as I type this. So, what you're saying is that for the past 2,777,009,487 seconds, Turkey has became dramatically more Islamic in tone and content, without explaining what the heck that means or giving examples, which is exactly what you rake VDH over the coals for.
4.) See #3 above regarding Iraq.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAnyone else catch that interview with an Egyptian pol?
He's so happy that the 30 year humiliation and insult has been removed, of course - no arab should be subjected to that shame.
What insult is that?
Why, stopping short of wiping out Israel, of course. They're going to fix that as quickly as possible.
They've learned nothing, and forgotten nothing. They're arabs.
Anyone want to guess what Israel's choice of weapons will be the next time?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI had no idea VDH was a raisin farmer.
I like raisins.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseColonel Travis,
The trend in Turkey has recently become evident, as in a slow insidious Islamicization. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk relied on the Army to prevent that, but today it's Army officers on trial for threatening the Erdogan government's creeping mullahcracy.
Evidence? Turkey's support of the Mavi Marmara's attempt to break the Gaza blockade, and of a renewed attempt forthcoming.
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