Michael, that Daily Kos guy makes a good point: What are we incentivizing here? If you’re a thug regime and you just want to be left alone to brutalize your people, the best thing to do is get yourself a small, easily affordable nuclear program. The Iranians, for example, have offered to share their nuclear know-how with Sudan. If you’re the Sudanese government (which has killed far more civilians than Gaddafi) and you’re watching what’s happening on your north-western border, doesn’t that offer look a lot more attractive today?
PS Two weeks ago I wrote re Afghanistan:
When America goes into Afghanistan, it doesn’t think it’s prosecuting American interests. Quite the opposite: Regardless of whether it’s officially UN- or Nato-sanctioned, America goes in as the expeditionary force of “world opinion” or “the global commons”. It doesn’t believe it has a national interest in Afghanistan, and indeed assumes that it would be a kind of transnational faux pas to be seen to have one, so it’s hardly surprising that the “nation” it winds up “building” doesn’t look much like anywhere any American would want to have anything to do with… Transnational nation-building is like a mangled Hotel California: We never seriously check in, and yet we never leave.
PPS Have we outspent in Libya all those GOP budget “savings” yet? Or do the Chinese, who after all “support” this intervention at the U.N., give us a special deal on transnationally-approved war debt?
Finally, a valid case of creating a terrorist where none existed before. The Left has been claiming this for years with no real evidence. Now I understand what they meant.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseDoes the US Congress have no say in any of this?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThey told me that If I didn't vote for 0bama in 2008, there was going to be another war in the Middle East. I guess they were right.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseOf course, by staying silent and/or cryptic on the topic, at least our President won't be faced with Code Pinko demonstrations, chanting "Obama lied, people died."
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGoofy Khadaffi never answered for the Pan Am downing. He paid some blood money to the victims' families but he never really paid.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMassive earthquake and tsunami in Japan, rebellion and uprising across the Middle East, a post on The Corner beginning with the words "that Daily Kos guy makes a good point" - are we witnessing the beginning of the Apocalypse?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThis is the long-term effect:
1. It does not pay to give up your Nuke Program - the U.S. will still bomb you. What was suppose to be this Administration's biggest concern: Nuke Profileration - just became more likely;
2. The new rulers in Libya will also be dictators, but anti-American and aligned with Iran and doing their bidding;
3. France and England obviously talked us into going to this restaurant; but guess who's going to pickup the check?
4. This will cause much more death and misery; full civil war followed by something similar to the French Revolution.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe Asteynalypse
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI disagree with some of the comments here. Quadaffi's had this coming and for quite some time. It's true we cut a deal to trade chopping his WMD program for better relations, although what the UK did with the Lockerbee bomber was much worse. Nonetheless circumstances change and Quadaffi didn't live up to his end of the deals.
In any case, unlike Egypt or even Yemen there's no recourse for the Libyan opposition as Quadaffi was bringing in outside forces to wipe them out wholesale. Without providing these rebels (many of which are from the army itself) some sort of outside support we'll miss the biggest opportunity we've ever had to nail this (insert expletive here). It's worth a little trouble to support this and I suggest not looking at the Iraq or Afghan "template" too much. Airpower and Special Forces should suffice here.
Oh, and Congress needs to rip Obama a big one for not consulting them on it. Just because it's the right thing to do doesn't mean you get to bypass Congress on it.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI say we leave it to France, Germany and UK to get rid of the Iranian nuclear program; they promised they could talk them out of it rather than use cowboy Bush's approach. It's only been 7 years, I'm sure they're right on the brink of success.
Hell, this lesson was clear from North Korea - get nukes and the west won't touch you no matter what you do.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe Law of Unintended Consequences has a corollary: The Rule of Unintended Lessons. That is, whatever you do, some observer will draw the completely wrong lesson from it about why you did it and what you are likely to do in future.
When April Glaspie says to Saddam that the US isn't interested in getting involved in a dispute between Iraq and Kuwait, Saddam learns that the US won't interfere with his military invasion and annexation of Kuwait. When the Clinton Administration gives a weak response to the WTC bombing, Bin Laden learns that he can conduct a mass casualty attack on the US with relative impunity.
So, what are the Iranians learning from our Libyan intervention?
The Green Revolution movement learns that when the situation becomes dire for those fighting an oppressive dictator in a Muslim country, the West inevitably stirs itself to military intervention to save the rebels.
The Iranian theocracy learns that they only have about three weeks to kill all the protesters before risking outside intervention, and that they have to ensure they do a complete job of it so that there's nobody alive for the West to protect.
Both are wrong.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse@Zakn, thanks- first thing I laughed at all day.
Iran is learning that we are cowards, and do things half-baked, and that we are no particular threat or obstacle to their doing as they please.
And I think they welcome the diversion of attention. And they probably are rooting for regime change in Libya, as they will have a strong hand in how that turns out.
Libya has been very troublesome, but certainly posed no immediate threat to us. When will someone with the authority (congress) step up and call the POTUS into account? When will we DEMAND an explaination for how this use of military is constitutional, serves our interest as a nation (not as a UN member), and what the end-game is? I just cannot come to grips with our actions on this! It makes no sense for us as a nation, and we MUST NOT tolerate such "decisions" as Mr. Obama is making, which may only serve his personal agenda.
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