Lindsey Graham’s reaction to the barbarous murder of U.N. workers by an Afghan mob “
in response”
to the (admittedly idiotic) deeds of Florida’s most incendiary preacher shows a rather poor grasp of the First Amendment. This, quite remarkably, is what Graham said:
I wish we could find some way to hold people accountable. Free speech is a great idea, but we’re in a war. During World War II, you had limits on what you could do if it inspired the enemy.
Well maybe you did, but I suspect that they were aimed at stopping people from publicly proclaiming the virtues of the Adolf Hitler crowd. An over the top condemnation of all things German would, I reckon, have been highly unlikely to trigger the wrath of the law.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Jones’s actions were ill-judged and unhelpful to what the U.S. is trying to do in the Islamic world. Nevertheless, if we start allowing Muslim mobs to dictate the limits of American free speech, this country will have sunk a very long way down.
Graham often shows himself to not believe in the law of the land. From campaign financing to illegal immigration, he sides against the Constitution. He hates the Tea Party as well. He's one of the reasons I've become disenchanted with the Republican Party....one of the many reasons.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWhy are we still in Afghanistan again? Our troops are risking their lives so radicals can kill innocents and the Senate can codemn the speach of Americans? Why should one more American have to lose his life for any of the governments of the Middle East? Our troops need to come home. Ten years and Afghanistan is still not ready for democracy. Oh well, let's try again in Libya.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWhen really fighting a war, insulting the enemy's ideology is always helpful. If Jones's insult is "unhelpful to what the US is trying to do in the Islamic world", then the US is not really fighting a war. Or at least not fighting on the correct side of the war. But that's been obvious for a long time anyway.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI didn't see the entire exchange, just a short clip played on the late news. The local anchor introduced it like it sounded like a good idea. In the clip I saw, Graham even said that someone burning the bible wouldn't be a justification for killing someone, but we have to be careful with acts that would "inspire the enemy" as he kept saying.
The entire focus here is on this idea that Muslims have no self control, and are driven purely by instinct. If you burn a Koran, or publish some cartoons, they have no choice but to go out and kill as many westerners as possible. It's disgusting.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseA man burns a book 10,000 miles away - a book, not a holy relic, just paper and ink - and a mob forms and kills 9 people. Rational people cannot comprehend this way of thinking. We are beyond asymetrical war here, we seem to be fighting aliens with a value system we cannot even imagine. All the COIN strategy in the world will not help here. I just don't see how this ends.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Don’t get me wrong. I think Jones’ actions were ill-judged and unhelpful to what the US is trying to do in the Islamic world."
I'd rather get you wrong, Mr. Stuttaford, for this position is cowardly and contradicts your other message, i.e. that we have free speech rules for a reason.
I was once like you-- why gratuitously bother insulting someone, particularly in their religious beliefs? I wouldn't personally do that, it just seems rude. But the only outcome I'm afraid of in that scenario is being seen as an impolite jerk, I don't bite my tongue because I'm afraid of getting killed.
The moment people start killing over this sort of thing, my obligation to keep my mouth shut evaporates. In fact, it becomes an obligation to do the precise opposite-- let's burn ALL the Korans we can find now. I'm not for outlawing Islam, I'm not for converting Muslims, I'm not for gratuitously insulting Muslims. But if there is a streak in their faith that kills when other people burn books, I'd prefer that we provoke that streak so it can be identified. Get it out in the open for the whole world to see the moral pygmies who kill over comic strips.
Then we'll see the reaction of "moderate" Muslims. If they fail to condemn the barbarians in their midst for killing innocent people over a book burned on the literal other side of the Earth, then what good are they to us?
Burn the book. Burn it everywhere, on TV, on the internet, everywhere a public fire is legal.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYeah, like during WW2 you weren't supposed to burn Mein Kempf? Or praise Jews? Because that would inspire the enemy? Guess what, enemies are already enemies. They don't need inspiring.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAs I understand, the Afghan President, Mr. Karzai is the one who spread the message of the burning. With friends like this, who needs enemies. Was burning a good idea - probably not. Should we send lawyers Reid and Graham back to law school to review the Bill of Rights? Better idea. These 3rd world cave dwellers need to take care of their problems on their own. We need to pull our soldiers out of this hole and let the meltdown begin.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse(insert standard gripe abotu Catchpa being hard on the colourblind)
My memory is rusty, but didn't President George HW Bush make a point of pronouncing Saddam's name in a way that translated as a mocking insult in Arabic? Mocking the enemy and his ways has long been a tradition, whether it be Captain America punching Hitler, mocking 'Johnny Reb' or satircal cartoons of Redcoats.
The solution to speech is more speech. Heck our existing is reason enough for the savages to want us dead. The Koran burning is just an excuse used by others to try to impose their restrictions on our freedom.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHere's the thing: The Koran-burning preacher is responsible for his actions....but not for the actions of the murderers who killed because of them. This whole idea that we should limit our own expressions because some nutjob thug somewhere might act out their own inner evilness and do harm is wrong, folks--wrong. Make them responsible for their murders. Period. I'm not endorsing the burning of books--far from it. But I'm not willing to in even the slightest way absolve people of responsibility for their own actions by saying "the devil made me do it" whether that "devil" is a human being or not.
Actions have consequences--but murderous ones should receive JUSTICE, period. There is, pax liberal juris-imprudence, no such thing as a "hate crime." There is only CRIME. I frankly do not care what your state of mind was when you burned a cross or lynched another human being. I only care that you are caught, tried, and punished when found guilty of that illegal BEHAVIOR. Your beliefs may comfort you with a false sense of righteousness in doing evil--fine, then: be comforted all the way to the grave.
Here are the best "acts" to "inspire" an enemy: Kill him. Make him afraid to BE an enemy again. Period. But when we offer to surrender our rights and freedoms to placate the irrational and unholy, we only offer them power they don't deserve and we can't survive.
Graham is an idiot. The guy who burned the Koran might just be one, too. But the people who murdered over it are criminals, pure and simple. Let's ignore the idiots, except to point out their idiocy and deny them power, and punish the criminals. How's that for a simple, commonsense, grownup plan?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSenator Graham is a constant reminder that the damage that can be caused by one's alleged allies is virtually unbounded.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIf I lived in South Carolina, I'd vote for Alvin Greene over Lindsay Graham next year.
And that is no joke. This man is a disgrace to our country and to the Senate. He MUST go.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseEven had the government prevented Jones from burning a Koran, what's there to stop the agitators from claiming that he did? A mob isn't going to fact-check diatribes leveled at us.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseTalk about missing the point: there was no blanket ban on CRITICISM of the Nazis on the grounds that saying hurtful things about them might make them commit more atrocities! The only ukase was against praising them too much. In addition to the other flaws in his statement, Graham's definition of "inspired" is nonsensical.
I guess by his definition, Roosevelt is responsible for the Holocaust.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI LIVE in South Carolina, and have never voted anything other than republican, but I, too, would vote for Alvin Greene over Lindsey Graham tomorrow.
And the next day. And the next, and the next, etc etc. How we can have Jim DeMint and Lindsey Graham as our two senators just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseJones is an idiot and Graham is competing with him for the title. texan59, it was Karzai who brought it to everyone's attention in Afghanistan days after the actual event. Some "ally", huh? The people who were "inspired" were supposed to be the good guys, not the enemy. If our so-called Afghan friends are as religiously radical as the Taliban, who and what are we trying to save over there?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI can't seem to find Senator Graham's statements condemning the Taliban's destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha statues in March 2001. External Link
I know that such a staunch defender of the right not to be offended must have spoken up on that occasion in defense of the world's 350,000,000 Buddhists. I guess my Google skills aren't the best.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIf the choice is between free speech and continuing our foreign occupations, I won't hesitate to pick the former.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseReid and Graham introduce the preemption principle, the preemption of the first amendment by sharia law.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse@The Livewire - I was remembering the same thing about GHWBush. That was back in my blindly liberal period and I still thought it was a good play. Religious zealots are religious zealots, whether they are in Florida or Afghanistan. The difference is the ones in Florida insulted someone's religious belief (something that occurs every day and every day to those of non-muslim faith, but we've overly learned the lesson of turning the other cheek. As for the ones in Afghanistan, they are MURDERING people who had NOTHING to do with the burning. It's should be beyond both understanding and justification and yet there go the progressives, making excuses for murder.
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