A great presentation by Charles Murray — I just finished listening to the whole thing.
Some random samples, with my comments.
At 34m10s: The older you are in this room, the more likely it is statistically that your parents did not have college educations, and that you grew up in a working-class or lower-middle-class home yourself … The younger you are in this room, the more likely it is that your parents were in the upper-middle class, were college-educated, and that you have spent your entire life living in an upper-middle class environment.
Too true. In academic/policy/intellectual circles, it’s rare to meet anyone under thirty — under forty, I think — who is not from an upper-middle-class family.
The post-WW2 opening-up of college education to boomer kids with prole parents was a one-off event. That generation of college graduates — people like me and Bill Clinton — has some distinctive traits setting it apart from those who came before and after. (Though the first generation of American college graduates from poor immigrant-Jewish families offers some parallels.)
Time and again in the presence of these elite youngsters, I find myself in the same frame of mind as the hillbilly in Deliverance who tells Ned Beatty “You don’t know nuthin’.” No offense intended to anybody. Well, not much.
At 43m10s: Over the course of the next decade or so, we in the United States are going to be watching the European model implode. It’s going to implode in some countries that do not permit massive immigration because they just can’t pay the bills any more, and they’re going to go bankrupt — their welfare states are. In other countries that do encourage massive immigration to help pay the bills, they will undergo cultural transformations; and the people who have new political power in those countries are not going to be people who are really fond of the Swedish model of the welfare state.
Murray is such an incorrigible optimist, it leads him into error. His argument here (which he develops further) is that we Americans, seeing the implosion of those misguided European states, will take the warning and get back on the straight and narrow.
But by that time — Murray is talking about ten years or so in the future — our own fifty-year experiment with “massive immigration” will have caused us, too, to “undergo cultural transformation,” won’t it? Hasn’t it already done so, in fact? Why should we think that “the people who have new political power” in the U.S.A. will be any more respectful of the traditional American exceptionalism Murray treasures (and speaks about very eloquently in his lecture) than immigrants to Sweden are of traditional Swedish attitudes?
(Although — and I’m not sure if this helps Murray’s case or hurts it — they do seem mighty fond of our welfare state.)
(This also speaks, by the way, to the issue raised by commenter Timbuktu to my previous post. In fact Murray fielded a question along those lines at 1h17m20s.)
On the welfare state itself, which he has been studying most of his adult life, Murray is infallible, and very quotable.
At 44m00s: There has to be an alternative. We are the richest country on earth, with a couple of hundred million people out of our population who don’t need a penny of government support. The entire welfare state could disappear tomorrow and they would do just fine. And yet we spend a couple of trillion dollars a year on transfer payments. For those of you who don’t think that Social Security and medicare are transfer payments, you have not been paying attention …
His central theme, though, is the one that was the topic of The Bell Curve: the way the upper-middle class is hardening into a caste, while those who fail to make it through the academic and occupational filters sink ever further into dysfunction and dependency. One factor here, which I’ve commented on myself somewhere, is the utter failure of the upper-middle class to perform what always used to be understood as one of their key functions: setting an example to the lower orders.
At 1h20m45s: One of the curious things about the new upper class is precisely that they are behaving in all the right ways. They’re getting married, they’re working hard … They’re doing all the right stuff [but] they won’t dare say: “This is the way people ought to be.” They will not preach what they practice. I put this down to non-judgmentalism …
A tour de force, Charles — thank you. I can’t wait for the book. [Cough, mumble] review copy [cough] …
So what we really need is *even more* moralistic lecturing by upper middle class worthies i.e., Pelosi, Clinton, Krugman, et al? Is that what we really need?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIf Murray is trying to say that importing tens of millions (more) impoverished, low-skilled immigrants (legally and illegally) into our modern welfare state is a panacea, then I/we may as well believe Obama's talking points about how ObamaCare will lower medical costs.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseRNCCritic,
Not exactly. What we need is for them to cease their idiotic blather about the glories of "diversity" and "tolerance," and instead to declaim on the value of a work ethic and traditional (pre-1967) American virtues. Our elites are currently preaching the slaughter of the goose that laid their golden egg.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseRNCCritic sniffs it out. The normal is non-judgmental, the lefty is incorrigible moralist. Solving this involves theology . . .
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseDerb - Is there a transcript available? I'm listening now but some of the stats would be easier to read than hear.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseLudwig001: Not yet, so far as I know. I imagine the AEI people will post one sooner or later.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYeah Derb -- this is another one of your posts that veers off the rails at the last minute. I'm with RNCCritic -- we don't need "life-coach" lectures from the "upper-middle class", thanks. And moreover, can you really not spot the giant glaring problem with these sentences??
"One factor here, which I’ve commented on myself somewhere, is the utter failure of the upper-middle class to perform what always used to be understood as one of their key functions: setting an example to the lower orders... They’re doing all the right stuff [but] they won’t dare say: “This is the way people ought to be.” They will not preach what they practice."
...what's the definition of an "example", John?
Maybe take a vacation for a little while? You seem stressed to such a degree that your misanthropy is decaying into some kind of neurosis.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI have to agree with Derb. When I was growing up, there was a "right" way to become an adult and have a family:
Get a degree. Get a job. THEN get married. THEN have kids. Then STAY MARRIED.
My parents stressed this to such a degree that it seemed like the only way to get ahead, not just the best way. Now we are beseiged with some sense of entitlement which says that we have to guarantee outcomes rather than opportunity.
As I said, I'm with Derb. There is a BEST way to get ahead in the world, and even that is not a guarantee. There are certainly OTHER ways, but one way is tried and true. We need that message to get out.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe reality is that "elite" opinion matters a great deal. How else to explain how badly America has gone off the rails since the 1960s? The constant fusillade of politically correct grapeshot, over a period of decades, has essentially shredded the ethos that made America great. It is time for the "elite" to undo the damage they've done by broadcasting a message supporting the traditional virtues they actually do practice. But I don't think it's going to happen. Not by a long shot.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThey won’t dare say: “This is the way people ought to be.” ????
We get nothing else but whiny, scolding lectures from the so-called upper class! We're too fat, we like our cars, we're killing the planet, we're all racists, blah blah blah.
Case in point:
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The Los Angeles Times reports today that White House fears gas prices could tank Obama. But they can’t be that worried. Here is a bit from an AP report on yesterday’s energy event in Fairless Hills, PA:
Obama needled one questioner who asked about gas prices, now averaging close to $3.70 a gallon nationwide, and suggested that the gentleman consider getting rid of his gas-guzzling vehicle.
"If you're complaining about the price of gas and you're only getting 8 miles a gallon, you know," Obama said laughingly. "You might want to think about a trade-in."
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Obama needled one questioner who asked about gas prices, now averaging close to $3.70 a gallon nationwide, and suggested that the gentleman consider getting rid of his gas-guzzling vehicle."
That exchange has now been deleted from the AP report. The press is always acting like the man in the circus who followed the elephants around with a broom and dustpan.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWith Derb, JD2011? Who knows? Don't forget, parental stress in ALL CAPS is an increasingly useless function against peer socialization.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseDexterScott says, "They won’t dare say: “This is the way people ought to be.” ????
"We get nothing else but whiny, scolding lectures from the so-called upper class! We're too fat, we like our cars, we're killing the planet, we're all racists, blah blah blah."
Yes, precisely, they not only need to lecture, they need to be right as well.
In the face of terrible advice, what sense does it make to abjure advice rather than terrible? I understand the libertarian principle of leaving people to make their own decisions (although I'm not a libertarian, merely a conservative with some libertarian leanings). But what does that have to do with talk?
In short, agree with Joseph Yeager and Derb.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseJim Buckhorn, "parental stress in ALL CAPS is an increasingly useless function against peer socialization."
So now what? Throw our hands up in the air? Count me out.
I will spend my days influencing (sermonizing?) those whom I care about. I will bore them senseless with stories of friends of mine who have done quite well for themselves, and other stories of friends who have always struggled. I'll make sure to correlate the choices they made with the results of those choices.
If nothing else, I will imbue them with a sense of responsibility for consequences of their actions.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"There has to be an alternative."
There is, and it is known as *freedom*.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm confused. On one hand Murray seems to mourn the loss of traditions and watering down populations that made America great.
But then he tells Derb this:
"I am not impressed by worries about losing America’s Anglo-European identity. ... And I’d a hell of a lot rather live in a Little Vietnam or a Little Guatemala neighborhood, ... than in many white-bread communities I can think of."
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Fine, as far as it goes. Myself, I would sorely miss real cappuccino or quality sashimi. That limits my choices of residence quite a bit.
But not so simple with Murray who resides in Burkittsville, MD External Link
, an absolutely charming little town in rural Maryland.
Charles Murray, who dislikes white-bread communities, is town's New Year Bell Ringer.
Must be a wonderful Guatemalan or Indonesian tradition.
See beautiful pics of that little paradise here External Link
.
And Burkittsville is properly diverse, just as Murray requires. Whopping 4% of population are Asians, huge 1% are black, tremendous 0% are Hispanics (all those Little Guatemala residents) and very modest 95% are boring white-breads.
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Interestingly, while Murray glaring hypocrisy was known for years, neither he nor his admirer Derb have ever attempted to explain it.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse>"One of the curious things about the new upper class is precisely that they are behaving in all the right ways. They’re getting married, they’re working hard … They’re doing all the right stuff [but] they won’t dare say: “This is the way people ought to be.” They will not preach what they practice."
On the contrary, they preach a great deal. It's hard to get them to STOP preaching. But what the new upper class preaches to the lower class is exactly the opposite of what it practices itself.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse>"what the new upper class preaches to the lower class is exactly the opposite of what it practices itself."
A case in point being Charles Murray himself, as Mick points out below.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseNot to pile onto Murray, here -- I like him and find him an interesting character as well as an intelligent voice -- but he *did* fall for Obama's Rev. Wright speech, as I recall, in the most embarrassing way. I think his hard head has a little bruised spot where a bit of sappiness seeps in from time to time. Curious.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse200 million Americans need no gov't support? Really? I doubt it. Don't medicare and medicaid alone support 100 million? what about the jobs spent administering them and all the tons of other fed and state programs? I suspect the stat is the opposite: only about 100 million of us DON'T need the gov't programs.
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