I knew it would be bad, but not this bad: More than 80 percent of Americans oppose Ryan’s plan to privatize Medicare. If you know and love old people dependent on Medicare, you know that shopping for medical plans is not high on the list of things they want to do, or you want to have to do for them.
Here’s another idea: So the U.S. federal government will become a pension plan with an army. Is that so bad from a libertarian perspective? We should be squeezing other programs to try to give to Medicare. Make the Democrats choose between, say, Head Start, a program that demonstrably doesn’t work, and Medicare.
Do they oppose Ryan's plan, or do they oppose Obama's characterization of it? (Not that it matters, since the Democrats and their friends in the MSM/unions/AARP/etc. always win the spin battle.)
It's so frustrating, because Ryan is trying to do something radical to save it, while the Democrats and Obama are doing the usual: propose absolutely nothing to fix it and spend all their time pulling out the tired old cliches of how the GOP wants to deny medical care to the elderly and the poor.
Sadly, those groups are just as much "on the plantation" as minority groups, who seem to buy into the "you have to let us do everything for you" lie that gets Democrats elected time and time again.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseOK, before we all jump off a multistory building--remember this is a Washington Post/ABC poll! No bias there, I'm sure? No skewed sample? Give it time. I don't think folk are as stupid as WaPo/ABC think!
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe only poll that's going to matter:
To control the costs of Medicare would you prefer a voucher to obtain private insurance or a have a permanent government panel determine how to ration care?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe article says reforming Medicare such that beneficiaries receive a check or voucher from the government each year for a fixed amount they can use to shop for their own private health insurance policy is opposed by 65% not 80%. The 80% deals with "cuts in the abstract" which is not Ryan's plan. So the 80%+ figure is misleading to say the least.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe House GOP passed the Ryan plan precisely because they knew it would never be enacted. Political theater at its best.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseA Washington Post/ABC news poll.
Yea right.
To govern and legislate based on poll results demonstrates a lack of integrity and leadership.
Give me an individual who has the guts to tell the American people the truth about our fiscal mess--Rep. Ryan is that person.
The use of numbers and statistics to stifle and influence the outcome of debate must be exposed. As Mark Twain stated; "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAll of these Medicare polls are meaningless unless you make it clear that the programs WILL NOT CHANGE for those 55 and older. Ryan's plan does not "privatize" medicare for anyone currently receiving benefits or those within 10 years of receiving benefits. That is a VERY important distinction, and could greatly affect the poll numbers.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseTHAT SAID, conservatives have a massive task of educating Americans about the insolvency of these programs. They are being told everything is fine by the Dems. The first rule of management is that when you are going to make changes, you must convince your employees that there is a need for change. Translate that to politics. We have to hammer away about the trouble these programs are in.
Why not just poll if someone would like everything to always be fine in the future?
The only poll result that is going to matter is whether one would prefer to help control the spiralling costs of healthcare by increasing free market reforms or have a permanent government panel to make on-going decisions on how healthcare is to be rationed.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseCertainly we should zero out Head Start, Planned Parenthood, most foreign aid, the Energy, Education and Labor departments, our vestigial Cold War overseas "defense" commitments, Obamacare, and the 2009 stimulus. Even if we weren't facing catastrophic debt, there's no excuse for having the government pay for such nonsense.
But the problem today is we do face catastrophic debt, so that even if we could eliminate all of the above and much more discretionary spending, we can't escape economic collapse until Medicare is addressed. It's no longer a choice of whether or not to leave it alone, the only choice is how to restructure it.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseCan we stop calling the plan "privatizing Medicare"? If Democrats want to lie about what Ryan plans to do in order to score points, fine. But we don't help the numbers any when we buy into their terminology. If you think Ryan's plan "privatizes Medicare" then you also have to believe that Medicare part D is a "private" program since the prescription drug plan uses the same premium support system that Ryan proposes for the whole program.
We did this with personal accounts in Social Security - we allowed the Democrats to mischaracterize it as a plan to "privatize Social Security" and "give Wall St. control of the trust fund" and then worse, we adopted the same terminology of privatization. And guess what - the plan never gained support and totally flopped, because nobody wanted to "privatize" the system. Funny thing is, neither did W or most Republicans (at least when you define "privatize" correctly).
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseReducing the federal government to an army and a pension fund would still result in bankruptcy. Restoring fiscal sanity is impossible without major cost-cutting reforms to Medicaire and/or Social Security. The two programs already eat up nearly half of the federal budget, and they are growing rapidly. Eliminating non-defense discretionary spending entirely would still leave an annual deficit that would have been shockingly large prior to 2008.
I'm all for cutting and eliminating lots of other programs, and that would perhaps allow somewhat less drastic cuts to the big programs for the elderly. But we can't avoid the dire need for major reforms.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWhen you look at how your typical American manages his personal finances, it's no surprise at all that he can't be bothered to know anything about national finances and is under the illusion that Medicare can and ought to continue its binge spending forever. In the War on Math, most of America is on the wrong side.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Make the Democrats choose between, say, Head Start, a program that demonstrably doesn’t work, and Medicare."
The problem with that, of course, is that Head Start is a miniscule budget item compared to Medicare. You could entirely eliminate all discretionary spending and just maintain defense, Social Security, and Medicare at current levels, and we'd still be in a crisis. There are really only four choices - 1) something like the Ryan plan, that forces seniors to pay for their own care (which I think we're seeing is politically unfeasible), 2) heavy payment cuts to providers and price controls (i.e. stop passing the "doc fix" each year) which will degrade the overall quality of care under Medicare, but keep it affordable, 3) massive tax increases, or 4) some combination of 1, 2 and 3 - raise taxes somewhat, cut benefits somewhat, lower reimbursement rates somewhat. If we're serious about the deficit, the focus should be on #4, because the default is #3 (and if we just keep borrowing to pay for Medicare at current rates, that simply amounts to deferred taxation - ANY unfunded spending will need to be paid for eventually, it's a fiction to say that you have lowered taxes when there's a deficit, because taxes will have to be raised at some later point to pay for that spending).
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'd be willing to bet 99.9% of the participants in the poll would be unable to explain Ryan's plan in any detail at all.
If Republicans are serious about saving Medicare, then they need to find ways to educate the public outside the realm of the MSM.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseNRO posters, please remember this next time you feel the desire to tell the world how much things have changed and how the populace understands we are going bankrupt and whatnot.
Problem is the last election and the one before that happened because the average idiot voter is just mad the economy is bad.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWhat polls like this, however misleading, will do is cause the RINO's to loose whatever small backbone they may have had. I know we shouldn't give up hope, but I'm not optimistic. Like Ryan himself said, this is the most predictable financial crisis we have ever had, and yet we are incapable of doing anything about it. Yes, we should continue to fight hard (that glimmer of hope), but we should also prepare for the inevitable.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThis is why the only feasible future is bankruptcy.
What form the bankruptcy will take is open to question, but what is not even debatable is that we will not stop borrowing and spending.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt's going to take overt, no-holds-barred intergenerational warfare to save the future for those of us 40 and under, isn't it?
(As opposed to the covert intergenerational war that people my age have been losing for decades now...)
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIn other words, Americans oppose cutting off free stuff and want other people to pay for this free stuff. Well sure, that’s democracy, but there aren’t enough other people , the “stuff” is getting more expensive and the interest payments on the credit card are starting to drown us in debt.
Take this question:
“the national debt could be reduced significantly by raising taxes on all Americans by a small percentage and making small reductions in Medicare and Social Security benefits. Is this something you would support or oppose? Do you support/oppose this strongly or somewhat?”
I’m sure that most Americans would support his, but it’s a fantasy. What if the question were rephrased to reflect reality by deleting “small percentage” and replacing it with “by 2/3rds?” How many American taxpayers would support increasing their taxes by 2/3rds? It probably would not all come at once, we’d be like frogs boiling in the water, an increase this year, an increase in several more years, until our grandkid’s tax burden was crushing and the young are perpetually shackled, paying for the benefits of their elders, until this unsustainable demographic Ponzi scheme collapses . Again – there are not enough “people making over $250,000 with enough money to make up the $70 trillion plus Medicare shortfall, so that means if we do nothing on Medicare, the not only the “Rich” will see massive tax increases, but EVERY. SINGLE. TAXPAYER. WILL. HAVE. MASSIVE. TAX. INCREASES, and even them Entitlements will consume discretionary spending, constrain all other Government action and make Congress and out Representative government essentially irrelevant . This battle is about more than just fiscal implosion, it’s about the American experiment in liberty and representative government started by the Founding Fathers ending with the United States becoming little more than a bureaucracy charged with administering a social insurance and social health program for seniors.
As another commenter stated, we have A LOT of educating to do. Even if ABC polled actual voters, I suspect Ryan’s insurance plan would be unpopular, but the Medicare debate is occurring without people having all of the facts. No one ever wants to cut benefits to Seniors, and that’s a very easy opinion to hold in the abstract if you ignore the price tag of those benefits.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseUnfortunately, the American people are responding exactly the way Democrats expected they would. Paul Ryan is a serious man who offered serious solutions to serious problems and all he asked was that we be brave enough to give his way a try. Instead, we've chosen to cling to a sinking ship, hoping we'll somehow avoid drowning. Good luck with that!
America isn't an exceptional country because the Americans who came before us were afraid to confront reality, face new challenges and walk bravely into the unknown. These polling numbers prove that liberals have transformed this country more than we realized. We're no longer a proud and independent people who accept responsibility to care for ourselves. We're irrational whiners who believe the government is a better steward of our money than we are.
I never thought I'd see the day when 80% of the American people would say to the federal government "Take as much of my money as you want and spend it as you see fit." But that day has come and President Obama and his Democratic colleagues must be thrilled.
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