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From the New York Times

I have just received an e-mail from Jeremy Peters, media reporter of the New York Times. It refers to this post. The e-mail:

Jay,

I’m writing to clear something up in your post from yesterday headlined “Scrub-a-dub-dub?” If you had bothered to call or write me to ask why Jill Abramson’s quote was deleted in the second version of my story, I would have told you what I’m about to tell you now. Nothing was scrubbed. And you have encouraged your readers to see some surreptitious plot where there was none.

The first version of my story, which contained the religion quote you referenced, was based on written statements from a Times press release and interviews I had done prior to the announcement of Jill’s appointment. I rewrote the story after Jill, Arthur Sulzberger, Bill Keller and Dean Baquet addressed the newsroom, swapping out nearly all of their old quotes for fresh quotes that came from their speeches. Everyone’s quotes in the second version of the story differed considerably from their quotes in the first version of the story.

On breaking news stories that develop throughout the day, we continuously update with new information, additional interviews, fuller detail and, yes, even new quotes. It should be telling that the first version of my story with the religion quote was up for nearly 12 hours before it was replaced with the version that appeared on A1 of today’s paper. And all the while, we approved and posted readers’ comments on the quote. Note that those comments remain on the site.

Since the story appeared in the paper as well as online, it had to fit our restricted space in print. A1 stories are required to be about 1,100 words, with special exceptions for investigative pieces or in-depth features. This story was already too long at more than 1,200. We needed to keep it tight.

There’s no conspiracy here. Just standard revising and updating and condensing for space.

Apparently, when there is a new “version” of a story — Mr. Peters’s word — this version acquires the link of the old version. So the previous version — again, apparently — ceases to exist. It is supplanted (and there is no indication that this has been done).

Let me rehash, quickly: Yesterday morning, I did a fairly lighthearted post — here — about the news article I read. The Times’s newly appointed executive editor, Jill Abramson, had said, “In my house growing up, The Times substituted for religion. If The Times said it, it was the absolute truth.”

That night, I got an e-mail from a reader, saying (in essence), “Hey, I went to that story you linked to, and that quote is not there.” So I said, in my follow-up post, that I found it “a tiny bit strange.” Which, frankly, I do — even now. I also said, “Abramson’s words were not exactly scrubbable, or scrub-worthy.”

So, there you have it.

AN AFTERTHOUGHT: I think of a favorite old spiritual: “I Been ’buked.” Whether this rebuke is entirely just, however, I’m not so sure. That’s one thing that readers, in this new wide-open media age, can puzzle out for themselves.

New on The Corner. . .


COMMENTS   81

EXPAND  

   06/03/11 18:03

Five paragraphs to say, "We didn't scrub it, but the quote you referenced isn't there any more and has been replaced by something else", or something.

I guess when you're paid by the word, any economy of language is somewhat self-defeating.

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   06/03/11 18:05

This wouldn't happen if the Times would observe internet norms, either giving edited stories new URLs or copping to changes. Those norms developed for a reason.

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   06/03/11 18:05

If breitbart did it, it would be selective editing and there would be the usual calls for his head.

The time does it without notation and it's an acceptable journalism practice.

The more they consider themselves exempt from the rules, the more the old gray lady sinks into irrelevance.

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   06/03/11 18:13

Jay,

I am on your side.

The reporter should check with his management on this one. Can a newspaper be the "newspaper of record" if it surreptitiously changes the record?

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   06/03/11 18:15

Now I understand. Mr. Peters didn't scrub, I mean revise, the article because he realized Ms. Abramson's comments were insensitive - which would have been a good thing - but because of standard updating, revising and condensing procedures. I thought there was at least one liberal at the NYT who recognized that it was inappropriate to compare a newspaper to the Holy Bible. Apparently not.

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Just Some Guy
   06/03/11 18:18

"If you had bothered". Keep digging, Peters.

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RuyDiaz
   06/03/11 18:19

Jay;

You are being a wimp. If you want to say something, go ahead and say it. Stand up for yourself, man.

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nmh
   06/03/11 18:19

so let me get this straight:

its apparently standard practice with Jeremy and the NYT to include in an article concerning a current event, past statements on topics unrelated to the current subject matter made by the subjects of that article, and to frame those quotes in such a way as to make them seem relevant to the current discussion.

Silly Jay, if you were a real journalist, you would already know these 'liberties' with the story are merely updating for new information and standard practice with the MSM and are necessary to keep it tight.

I hope you learned your lesson...i don't want to have to 'buke you

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   06/03/11 18:22

“In my house growing up, The Times substituted for religion. If The Times said it, it was the absolute truth.”

Until they deleted it.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

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   06/03/11 18:26

Can you say "Down the memory hole?" It's what I don't like about online news, digital books, records, etc.

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   Cato
   06/03/11 18:28

So, it's okay because they left up the comments remarking on a now-nonexistent quote? Somehow that doesn't seem to make it better.

Why not just post an entirely new story? The Times' antiquated deference to print just seems a bit bizarre in this century.

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Will_Collier
   06/03/11 18:46

How the Times must hate it that they can get called on this kind of stuff and not be able to silence it with a pompous glare. How wonderful that their power is broken to the point that all they have left is pomposity.

What was it that Bill Clinton used to say? Oh yes: "the scalded dog barks loudest."

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   06/03/11 18:48

What the reporter describes is standard procedure at basically any newspaper with a website. I work at a local paper, not the paper of record for anyone, and we constantly rush to put up early web copy, then replace it in the afternoon with the version that runs in the dead tree. It's often confusing and always inefficient, but that's how these organizations try to straddle the gap between their unfashionable print operation and their unprofitable web operation.

Yeah, you're post was light hearted. It also exposed your ignorance of how newspapers actually work, despite your inclination to pretentiously compare them to religions and imagine they're engaged in some conspiracy against the public.

The thing political bloggers constantly misunderstand about reporters is that unlike the former, the latter did not go into journalism in order to misinform their readers in service to their ideology.

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   06/03/11 18:58

"the latter did not go into journalism in order to misinform their readers in service to their ideology."

So they only came to that after entering the profession?

Great.

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   06/03/11 19:42

Dear Redfate -

"It's often confusing and always inefficient, but that's how these organizations try to straddle the gap between their unfashionable print operation and their unprofitable web operation."

So your standard procedures are confusing and inefficient, unfashionable and unprofitable? Were you trying to make Mr. Nordlinger's point for him?

You have truly exposed some ignorance and pretentiousness. Kudos.

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   06/03/11 19:43

So, your you're local paper's satirist?

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   06/03/11 22:46

redfate, Perhaps the fact that your paper is "unfashionable" and its associated web presence is "unprofitable" might be somehow related to its "inefficient" practice of disseminating information in a "confusing" way.

Oh, and "reporters ... did not go into journalism in order to misinform their readers in service to their ideology."?

Here's a study that says otherwise, there are plenty more where this came from: External Link 

Key takeaway, "As you might expect, most of the respondents cited “a desire to change the world in some way” as their motivation for engaging in journalism."

And then there's this, which seems eerily appropriate to Jay's point:
"News is what someone wants suppressed. Everything else is advertising. The power is to set the agenda. What we print and what we don’t print matter a lot.”
– Katharine Graham

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   06/03/11 18:54

It is obvious what happened. The Times posted Abramson's original quote, people naturally started making fun of it's cult-like aspects, and the Times hastily scrubbed it to avoid further embarrassment.

It is also instructive that both the Times and Jeremy Peters are oblivious to the fact that Abramson's quote in the un-scrubbed version of the story was quite creepy. Unalloyed contempt for the embittered G*d-and-guns-clingers in flyover country has done some strange things to the Times.

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   06/03/11 18:56

@ redfate

I went to J-school, spent most my professional life in journalism, and the last paragraph in your comment is a farce.

Did the NYT tell everyone yesterday that they were using old quotes? Of course not. In the grand scheme of things, does refreshing with new quotes matter? No. I've "refreshed" myself, except that everywhere I've worked, which has not included the NYT, has slapped on a word such as "UPDATED" followed by the time and date. Before the internet, the only way a reader could tell what was altered was to compare editions.

The missing quotes were the only vivid words in a boring story. Why remove them? If I were "refreshing" I would have I would have insisted they remain, even try to ask Jill Abramson about it, if possible.

Maybe the NYT didn't have second thoughts about erasing the quotes, maybe they did. But because the paper of record has such a dismal record for reporting, fudging, misleading and (rarely, thankfully) lying that it's hard to know what's really going on in that newsroom.

I noticed they did keep "ascending to Valhalla" and I wonder if Abramson really knows what Valhalla really was? It's not comparable to heaven. It was a great hall built by Odin to house the most elite soldiers who'd died in battle, and who would fight on the gods' behalf. They would spend all day and night drinking, eating and practicing fighting. If they died in practice they would be brought back to life (as it were). This is all they did. And the reason Odin built Valhalla was because prohecy said the Norse gods were doomed in something akin to the Rapture, so they may as well go out with a bang.

Cheers, Jill.

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Jimmy Pritchard
   06/03/11 18:56

Ladies and germs, I give you "journalism" in all its pomposity.

Thank you "redfate" for being a sterling model of such... I couldn't have made up a message that pretentious if I'd tried. Please, let us know which paper you work for... I'd like to make sure I don't bother reading it, either.

You, and the Times, are sterling examples of why "journalism" is a joke, and you've provided a great punch line.

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