We are two lifelong New Yorkers who do not agree about many things. We are of different races, religions, and political parties. One of us is a Bronx liberal Democrat, the other of us heads the Conservative party.
But we agree on at least three great truths:
First, marriage is and should remain the union of husband and wife. Same-sex marriage is a government takeover of an institution the government did not create and should not redefine.
Second, gay marriage is not inevitable. The mainstream media widely retailed a misconstrued version of Sen. Rev. Diaz’s remarks in Albany this week. We both agree, as Senator Diaz said, that if a gay-marriage bill passes it will be because the GOP caved for no discernible good reason at all.
Third, as practical pols we agree: If gay marriage passes, it is Republicans across the state who will pay the biggest price.
Politics is a team sport. The decision of senate Republicans to take up this bill, and thus help enable Governor Cuomo’s goal to pass gay marriage, will affect the way voters across the state view the Republican party — especially if Republican state senators told voters one thing during the campaign, and now propose to change their votes at Governor Cuomo’s behest.
The National Organization for Marriage released a poll of registered New Yorkers, conducted this past weekend. Fifty-seven percent of New York voters agree that “marriage should only be between a man and a woman” versus 32 percent who disagree. Meanwhile, the new NOM poll shows that only about one in four New York voters (26 percent) prefer legislators in Albany to decide this issue, while 59 percent say the issue of marriage should be decided by the voters in New York.
Other polls with different wordings have produced widely different results — but there is no poll that puts gay marriage high on the priority list of any significant number of voters. And even those polls most favorable to gay marriage continue to show that solid majorities of Republican voters have not shifted at all in their opposition to gay marriage.
If gay marriage advocates honestly believe they have a super-majority of New Yorkers in their corner, they should join with us to agree to permit a referendum to decide this issue. If they do not, their claims to represent the majority will ring rather hollow.
This gay-marriage bill is not in the best interests of New York, it is not the choice of New Yorkers, and it is decidedly against the interests of the Republican party.
Republicans have conferenced for four days without reaching agreement on what to do about gay marriage in New York. The enormous public outpouring against the bill — Sen. Greg Ball said 60 percent of calls have opposed it in his district — and the hundreds of people who showed up to rally against gay marriage yesterday must have made state senate Republicans aware that they have a real problem on their hands.
The last time the Republican party caved on a deeply important social issue — abortion — it destroyed the party’s prospects for years. And for what? To help Andrew Cuomo run for president? As Brian Brown, president of NOM, quipped:
Selling your principles in order to get elected is wrong, selling your principles to help get the other guy get elected is just plain dumb.
Memo to GOP leadership: Kill this bill, and let the people of New York decide the future of marriage.
— Sen. Rev. Ruben Diaz is a Democratic state senator from the Bronx. Michael Long is the chairman of the Conservative Party of New York State.
One thing I've found difficult is to fight a pro-marriage agenda without being called anti-gay. It's unfair that that's happening, but it's a reality.
It's my opinion that reaffirming and supporting marriage between one man and one woman is good for everyone, including and especially gays. I wish more people were making that argument, especially the leaders of our political class.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHow is opposing same-sex marriage "pro-marriage?" Heterosexual marriage won't change whether or not same sex marriage passes.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseBecause, Jason, as the saying goes: the law is a teacher. Gay rights activists know this very well, which is why they are pushing this so hard.
Other people who have given this less thought allow themselves to be cowed by condescending questions like, "Did YOU marry just because the government said you should? is thay the basis for your marriage?"
Well, it may not be the basis for my marriage, but What Is Legal is the only guide that a lot of people have. What did Anthony Weiner say when he was caught? "I did nothing illegal."
One more thing. Activists who insist that this change will not affect religious liberties are just lying.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMarriage, as it has been understood since the dawn of time, is between one man and one woman. Re-defining that long held idea to include other groups who want the state's (and, by extension, on various religious groups) stamp of approval on their relationship doesn't "strengthen" the institution. If it did, let's make marriage between any number of consenting adults legal too - that'll strengthen marriage, right? And, then the state can force that definition on all religious institutions. In fact, why should the state or any religious group have a definition of marriage at all?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIndividual hetero marriages may stay intact, but the public understanding of what marriage is WILL change, and that in turn affects the rest of society. When all of the other changes to the nuclear family came into being (no-fault divorce, donor daddies, welfare-check daddies, shacking up, extra-marital sex), we were assured by the avant garde that nothing bad would happen; instead, in each case we've reaped the whirlwind.
Without being able to roll back the harmful change, I might add. When same-sex marriage proves to be harmful to society, then what? Will we be able to outlaw it again? All signs point to No.
Hetero marriage means that the foundational institution of society MUST include one member of each sex. Male and female is not fungible and not expendable. Yin and yang are cosmic complementarities that constitute a whole; yin/yin and yang/yang cannot be substituted.
It is tragic and painful that 1-3% of adults cannot bond sexually with the opposite sex, but the tragedy of a minority is not sufficient justification to redefine all societies' bedrock institution.
Those who support same-sex marriage do so primarily because they don't want to be bigots or they don't want to be unfair or mean. Again, that's not sufficient justification to obviate the fundamental male/female dynamic that currently defines marriage.
If power plants have to submit environmental impact statements before tearing up sod, why shouldn't the SSM proponents be required to do the same? After all, they're the aggressors in this round of the culture war: the burden of proof is on them.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Same-sex marriage is a government takeover of an institution the government did not create and should not redefine."
What do you mean by "government takeover?" Will the government be running your marriage if same-sex marriage passes in New York? This sounds like empty rhetoric.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseLegistaltion instituting "gay marriage" is a grotesque abuse of government power. Its purpose is to normalize homosexuality, to obliterate the moral distinction between heterosexuality in the context of monogamous marriage and homosexuality in whatever context we find it. Our culture has an ancient, well developed moral tradition. Ordered liberty depends on that moral tradition and disapproval of homosexual conduct is an integral part of it. When the government acts to subvert our moral tradition it projects itself deeply into the private sphere, usurping power to a degree inconsistent with a free society. That's what a "government takeover of marriage" means. The authors are dead on target.
"Gay marriage" is pure, malicious cultural vandalism. Anyone who doesn't actually want to destroy our free society who falls for the gay drumbeat is a fool.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseOh, I thought a government takeover is when the government takes over something.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseExactly. I am happy to see that my own thoughts on this are not alone.
1. Neither government nor religion invented marriage. It is a practice of the people. Any governmental change in its fundamental aspects is a violation of the constitutionally specified right of The People. Thus, even if the NY law passes, I would call it federally unconstitutional. A referendum on the subject, if passed, would be OK; but I note that when the California referendum banning same-sex marriage passed, the federal courts ruled against it! It's time to re-evaluate Marbury versus Madison.
2. Want polls? How about at the ballot box? Put it up as a referendum. If NY doesn't have the process, the let the state government first add a referendum process, then use it.
3. Yes, the GOP will pay. I don't vote in NY. However, I have already prepared a "Certificate of Cowardice" which I will mail to the state's senate leader, if the same-sex marriage bill passes. The certificate features a cartoon of a frightened elephant standing on a chair, to avoid a mouse.
Note to Republicans: A lot of Americans don't particularly like your militarism and tie-ins with the NRA and other rah rah groups, any more than they like the Democrat tie-ins to certain radical causes. One reason McCain lost in 2008 was a general distaste for militaristic attitude, and distaste for using Vietnam as a stepping stool to the presidency. The same is likely to apply in 2012, for the nominee. Yet many voters will put up with the militarism if there's something else in it. Among these things is courage against socially destructive forces. If that front is not held, then there's much less reason to vote Republican, and the party will become a permanent minority endorsed by ranchers, tax accountants, and wannabe libertarians.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm not in favor of same-sex marriage, but I'm confused by the argument that the government is (apparently just now) "taking over" an institution that it "did not create and should not redefine." What about government-imposed restrictions on people who can marry based on family relations. Certainly, that was a redefinition of marriage. What about divorce courts, which are empowered to award alimony and otherwise dictate the terms of a divorce. That wasn't a takeover? I agree that same sex marriage places society at a bad intersection that is not fully being considered by its proponents, and that it is no doubt being imposed on society by the government, but I'm not sure I follow the government "takeover" argument.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI am a gay, pro-military, pro-life Republican. I have family serving in Afghanistan and was a big supporter of GWB (both times). I am struck by the empty rhetoric surrounding the issue of marriage rights for gays and lesbians. We work hard. We pay taxes. We pay our mortgages. We volunteer. We get driver's licenses. We attend church services. Yet the government will not give us the right to marry. We are not asking for acceptance from people who don't like our lifestyle. We are not asking for churches to validate our relationships. Plain and simply, we are asking the government to afford us the same rights given to other taxpayers. The religious arguments don't make sense to me since atheists can marry. The tradition arguments don't make sense to me because some traditions like slavery and female circumcision in African countries sometimes need changing. Have there been detrimental effects in Mass.? Doubtful, or we would read about them. I stand with Dick Cheney: a proud conservative who supports gay marriage.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Have there been detrimental effects in Mass.? Doubtful, or we would read about them."
We would?
The same way we've been reading about the detrimental effects of abortion on a woman's psyche?
The negative effects of same-sex marriage on society would take 1-2 generations to become identifiable.
"Plain and simply, we are asking the government to afford us the same rights given to other taxpayers."
But none of the gubmint bennies are fundamental to What Marriage Is. It has nothing to do with paying taxes or serving in the military or otherwise behaving as a decent person or functional citizen.
Government recognizes marriage but does not create it, just as government protects our rights but does not grant them.
I am sorry that you are unable to sexually bond with a woman, through no fault of your own: that's a tough row to hoe.
But your pain--no matter how profound--is not sufficient cause to obliterate the archetypal and essential male/female dynamic that forms the basis of the home.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"We are not asking for acceptance from people who don't like our lifestyle."
But you are -- perhaps not you, personally, but that is the effect of what you ask. Look for proof in California and Massachusetts.
California offers all the benefits of marriage in its "domestic partnership law." That isn't enough for the SSM activists, who call such a legal compromise "separate but equal." They want the word "marriage" because it requires the rest of us to appear as if we not only accept but celebrate.
In Massachusetts, as soon as SSM was imposed by the courts, grade-school curricula began to be modifed so that little children were taught not only "acceptance" but "how to." If you can stomach it, listen to this justification made by a homosexual teacher who taught her fifth-graders about Lesbian sex toys. She directly ascribes her curriculum changes to the imposition of SSM and says there is nothing parents or anyone else can do about it:
"Massachusetts Schools Weigh Gay Topics"
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Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYour problem is not with the government. It is with the fact that the current system is ordered around reality. The definition of marriage is as "fair" as the fact that you and your spouse cannot produce natural children. There is nothing "just" about requiring the society to organize itself around fantasy.
Why do you get those tax breaks, but really close platonic friends do not? Working hard and paying taxes does not give anyone the right to just change the definitions of words to what you want them to be.
Should we start changing the definition of "parent" because some aggressive, rich activists demand we do? I really really like my neighbor's kid, and he likes me. We've decided that I'M his parent instead of the adults he lives with. Who are THEY to discriminate? Why do THEY have special rights to him that I don't?
How about changing the definition of the word "military"? I mean, why should you be entitled to all those special benefits? I work hard, I'm a loyal American. I fight various enemies in my workplace. Why do you think it is okay to discriminate against someone like me merely because I don't fight overseas?
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"The definition of marriage is as "fair" as the fact that you and your spouse cannot produce natural children."
And that's where your argument seems to fall apart. Not all heterosexual marriages end in children. If an 80-yr-old man and woman want to get married, they can. They can't have children, but they CAN get married. So can young infertile couples. Should everyone who wants to get married now be required to have fertility tests? See how fast that argument falls apart?
Having children and having the ability to produce children does not define marriage in our culture. I hate this flawed logic. It is a potential facet of marriage, but to use that as the defining feature of what a marriage is paints it as a loveless chattle producing institution that makes me sad for your spouse if you are married.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHowever sad it may make you, *society's* interest in marriage (in contrast, perhaps, to your personal interest) is to encourage households that include a committed father and mother for any child who may come along. Marriage arose because of this possibility of procreation. We don't know at the outset which couples will have children -- or which will adopt. Accidents happen, minds are changed, infertility is overcome. And even older couples can provide a father and mother for a child if they choose to adopt. We don't inquire into these particulars. In the case of homosexuals, of course, there is no need to.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Not all heterosexual marriages end in children."
How about this compromise: We'll require infertile or childless couples to annul their marriages AND ban same-sex couples from raising children.
Happy?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHow can allowing gay folks to marry be a government takeover of marriage? The government is already in charge of conferring legally married status upon couples. That part of Mr. Diaz' "argument" is incoherent.
By the way, while few things are inevitable, gay marriage is going to happen.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThank you *so much* for clarifying. I wasn't sure it was inevitable, but now that you have declared it so, I don't have to worry my head about it anymore. Thanks again!
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe authors write, "Same-sex marriage is a government takeover of an institution the government did not create and should not redefine."
Whatever you believe about gay marriage, you should recognize this statement as simply false. To whatever extent the government has "taken over" marriage, it did so when it started to define who could get married. The government is no more involved in marriage when it allows gay couples to marry than it is when it forbids them from marrying.
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