During your bus tour this week you repeatedly called for “shared sacrifice” and for the “wealthy” to pay their “fair share” in order to reduce the federal deficit and debt. According to the latest IRS data:
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The top 1 percent of income earners pay 38 percent of all federal income taxes. They earn 20 percent of all (adjusted gross) income.
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The top 10 percent of income earners pay 70 percent of all federal income taxes. They earn 55 percent of all income.
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The top 25 percent of all income earners pay 86 percent of all federal income taxes. They earn 67 percent of all income.
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Approximately half of U.S. households pay no federal income taxes whatsoever.
From which of the above categories do you want more “shared sacrifice?”
Do you want those in the top 25 percent of income earners to pay more than 86 percent of all federal income tax? If so, how much more?
Do you maintain that the top 25 percent should pay more federal income taxes because they use federal government services or benefit from federal government programs more than those who pay no federal income taxes? If so, which specific federal programs/services provide more benefits to the top 25 percent than to those who pay no federal income taxes?
What, if anything, should be the “fair share” paid by those presently paying no federal income taxes?
The threshold adjusted gross income for the top 25 percent of income earners is $67,280. Do you consider that “wealthy?”
Two groups that always seem to be exempted from 'Shared Sacrifice' are Senior Citizens and Government Bureaucrats.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWhat, if anything, should be the “fair share” paid by those presently paying no federal income taxes?
Flat rate, a C-note per household. Call it the Non-Alternative Minimum Tax. Use it to start paying down some debt. Warren Buffett can sweeten the pot.
That way, everybody's got skin in the game, and those of us in that top 25% no longer think of those (former) non-payers as useless parasites.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseA single C-note (or however much) is a capitation tax. Could be done... but it would have to be done constitutionally, and here's what we have for that:
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseArticle I, Sec. 9, Par. 4: "No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken." It took the 16th Amendment to get over that for an income tax.
So add it to the income tax:
"Regardless of deductions or marginal rates no one reporting any gross income shall incur a tax liability less than $100 or 100% of gross income, which ever is less."
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSo if you report a gross income of less than $100, you're advocating what that old joke 1040 form states: Just send it all in.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"A single C-note (or however much) is a capitation tax."
No it's not. We already have an Alternative Minimum Tax, do we not?
Michael used the words "per household", which of course is the same language that the IRS uses in its filing criteria.
If we can have an alternative minimum tax to ensure that "rich people" pay their fair share (and we do), then we can extend that alternative minimum tax to ensure that everyone pays their fair share.
If you don't have any income, then you don't file and if you don't file, then you don't pay the AMT, thus their is no capitation tax.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe AMT is a flat percentage of income, not a fixed amount per person. A fixed amount per person is indeed a capitation tax. But levying it according to the census doesn't seem like a huge obstacle to me.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt's one thing for the President to say to America's wealthiest citizens, "The country is in a mess, we need more revenue fast and you folks are in the best position to provide it, at least temporarily." But instead, the President says "The country is in a mess because American's wealthiest citizens haven't been paying their fair share and they need to step up to the plate and do that." The message he's sending is misleading - as it's intended to be - and obviously politically motivated, which is why many Americans are reacting negatively to it. It's difficult to trust a President that intentionally lies to you.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseJenna: The president has been saying "shared sacrifice" in the context of BOTH expense cuts and tax increases.
Point me to one reliable source where the President has said that the economic situation is solely or primarily the result of undertaxation.
At least try to use facts to back up your talking points.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseExcept the president has yet to propose a plan that actually cuts spending.
A plan that says people get a smaller increase than they were counting on, is not sacrifice.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMarkW: The president signed legislation requiring cuts, which the "supercommittee" is tasked with identifying. Cuts go into effect if the committee does nothing. There will be entitlement cuts.
You and Jenna should try, just for once, to rely on facts rather than fabricate a basis for your partisan hatred.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWell said. I've often thought that those of us on the Right would do well to more forthrightly make fairness-based arguments against graduated income taxes, both because it's a discussion we can't avoid, and because I think it can be turned to our advantage. Leftist intellectuals don't mind arguing openly for need-based redistribution, but ordinary people, although they may have a vague idea that "the rich should pay more", also seem to have the idea that the rich currently pay very little. Moreover, in my experience, you can back-foot most of them by challenging graduated income taxes on fairness grounds, because most ordinary people still find the argument for naked, need-based redistribution embarassing. It smacks of theft, of undeserved benefit, of parasitism. This embarassment, shame, and defensiveness is something we should be exploiting and fanning, to try to morally delegitimize graduated income taxes in the same way that "redistribution" has become a bad word for a large segment of the electorate.
Pragmatic arguments about small businesses and job creation are fine too, but we shouldn't shrink from the moral dimension. (It's particularly fun to argue to a leftist that the fairest form of taxation is a head tax.)
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSo, just taking a temperature here, but as a fairly center-left guy, I cringe as soon as I see a post like this because it pretends that the only tax anyone pays is income tax, and the income tax is very progressive, while all other taxes are mildly regressive--the payroll tax being the most obvious of these.
Is that how people who read this regularly think, or is the general idea that the income tax is the big one and all other taxes are pretty much rounding errors?
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse@Mikeeeee: For most people payroll taxes are not regressive.
Consider that the Medicare portion is taxed on all earned income at a flat rate and the top for Social Security is $106,800.
By the numbers above that means people will into the top 25% are not maxing out Social Security and all earned income is taxed for Medicare.
Plus, the EIC was specifically designed to offset payroll taxes. The result is a refundable credit (ie negative income tax) to offset payroll taxes while allowing those individuals to make a claim at end of life for the benefits.
Thus, nearly all taxpayers are paying the same rate for payroll taxes but half of taxpayers are then exempted from income taxes. Given the US has the most regressive income tax in the OECD the fact that only very high earned incomes partially escape SS taxes and only unearned income escapes both SS and Medicare do make payroll taxes largely irrelevant in terms of federal individual taxes.
The feds have no other significant individual tax source.
So yes, I do think this way and given in the past three years I have gone from being someone whose payroll taxes were higher than his income taxes to being in that top 25% I don't think it is an unreasonable way to think. Especially given the direct connection between a benefit and taxes in terms of payroll taxes and the fact those benefits are mildly progressive.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe payroll tax is not regressive. It is a flat tax that has a ceiling. That in no way is regressive.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseTo nitpick, the Medicare payroll tax is flat, not regressive.
More substantially, in analyzing both payroll taxes I think you need to take the expected benefits into account, and those benefits are highly progressive. The expected benefit for Medicare is the same for everyone, so the 'return' on taxes paid is inversely related to income.
A little more complicated for Social Security, but here's the benefit formula:
External Link
As you can see in the example presented the individual with the lower income received a benefit equal to 45% of his monthly salary, while for the higher income the figure was 30%. For the first $749 of income, the percentage is 90.
Of course, all this assumes the benefits will be there, which is another story.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI agree entirely with Jim McSweeney. You'll have to explain to me how the Social Security tax is regressive.
Everyone (who works and isn't exempted by a state-run or federal employment retirement fund) pays in. And, based upon what you earned (and thus, what you paid), you get a predefined benefit. The SSA calls this "average indexed monthly earnings".
How is that regressive? A guy who paid the maximum amount for the last 30-years of his life isn't benefiting from they guy who only paid a fraction of the maximum amount, is he? That would be regressive. They both get back what they have paid in.
I suppose, as a "left of center guy", you probably think that the man who paid the maximum should get back less, and the buy who paid something less than the maximum, should get more. Am I right?
That's really what your problem is - Social Security isn't redistributing enough money.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI have another question.
"Mr. President, what sort of a message does it send to the American people when, during a time of high unemployment and general economic distress, you will personally be spending more on a week's vacation at Martha's Vinyard than most Americans earn in an entire year?"
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseVery well said.
I am luckily/unluckily enough to be in the top income tax bracket- but i agree i should not have to pay more tax to help those who were not smart enough to get into university or who did not have the initiative to start their own business.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYour wonderful, Expat asia, and all those poor people are just slacking, stupid bums. But I appreciate your wonderfulness, Yes Sir! Cordially, Bill
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