Kevin: Welcome to my world! On the specific point that you and Heather brought up about the federal law related to in-state tuition: the law does, in fact, require any state that gives tuition discounts based on residency to illegal aliens to extend the same discounts to Americans from other states. However, California successfully defended its in-state tuition law earlier this year by arguing that the tuition discount is based on graduation from a California high school, not residency (I believe the Texas law works the same way). This is sophistry, to be sure, subverting the intent of the federal law, but then law is sophistry, so any future attempt by Congress to prevent this sort of thing will have to be drafted more carefully.
More generally, though, the in-state tuition debate isn’t really about tuition at all — it’s about amnesty. First of all, the “DREAM Act” moniker is borrowed from proposed federal legislation which would have legalized certain illegal aliens brought here before their 16th birthday — an amnesty, in other words. The state-level “DREAM Acts” are just efforts at creating momentum and awareness for the amnesty legislation.
What’s more, the conservative defenses of Perry’s in-state tuition subsidy for illegals implicitly assume it’s the first step toward amnesty. For instance, Christian Schneider’s comments here in the Corner:
By the time an undocumented [sic!] child makes it from first grade to graduating high school, taxpayers have already sunk over $100,000 into that child’s education. To pull the plug on those children because of the actions of their parents would be unfair, and would nullify the investment taxpayers have already made in the kid. …
So while they’re here, our state would be better off giving these kids the chance to make our country better, rather than sentencing them to a second-class existence.
The same sentiment in Saturday’s Post from someone claiming to represent a Tea Party group:
“Yeah, you could say that some taxpayer dollars are being used, but at the same time those kids graduate from college and go on to create money for the economy.”
And Gov. Perry himself, in the Tampa debate earlier this month, said:
We were clearly sending a message to young people, regardless of what the sound of their last name is, that we believe in you. That if you want to live in the state of Texas and you want to pursue citizenship, that we’re going to allow you the opportunity to be contributing members in the state of Texas and not be a drag on our state.
The problem with this, of course, is that once they graduate with this taxpayer-subsidized education, they’re still illegal aliens and so it’s illegal to hire them. (The stuff about “pursuing citizenship” is meaningless chaff — there’s no such thing for people in this situation.) They’re not going to “make our country better” or “go on to create money for the economy” or be “contributing members in the state of Texas” if they’re still illegal aliens.
Now, maybe there’s an argument to be made for legalizing certain illegal aliens brought here at a very young age whose identities were formed here and who know no other country. Actually, I’ve made that very argument many times. But if we’re going to debate amnesty for people in this situation, then let’s debate amnesty. Arguing for in-state tuition for illegal aliens without making plain that the real objective is legal status is incomplete at best, dishonest at worst.
Not sure what should be done with all of the illegals who are in the country, but relegating their children to a permanent underclass by not educating them does not seem to me to be a good idea.
I don't like how they got here, but the reality is that they are here, and for the health of the nation, they must be integrated into the American melting pot.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseNo one is suggesting they be barred from being educated; only that they not be subsidized at the expense of legal citizens.
I can testify that here in Maryland, within a month after the legislature passed the in-state tuition for illegals law, every college student I know had his financial aid cut.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYou're right. Perry's position is logically flawed. How can subsidizing illegal immigrants' college tuition be beneficial to this country when it is illegal for anyone to hire them when they graduate? Has anyone asked Perry if he supports punishing employers who might hire the illegal immigrants he has educated and presumably encouraged to apply for jobs? The illegal immigration problem is complicated, but this isn't the answer.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIsn't a partial answer (whether Perry chooses to give it or not) is, "They will go home and work or go elsewhere to work?"
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAs long as illegal aliens get away with voting there will never be an end to this.
The difference between now and the Ike days is that the Democrat Party has a vested interest in amnesty since it can only survive by appealing to non-Americans. Ensure that illegals can't vote and much of their appeal to Democrat pols evaporates overnight.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuseha ha yeah, all those shifty brown people, can't trust 'em with their tortillas and sharia law, trying to steal our god-fearing white country away from us!
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThank you, Voting Rights for Non-Citizens lobby.
Your screams of "RACISM!" are puny and ineffective.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSo ignorant. The second-most numerous contingent of illegal aliens in Chicago is from Poland.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseExcept I'm not a gringo---Gringo.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuseha ha yeah, we will see if the American people agree with you.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIn Texas we did something about little bit of insanity:
[Texas] Senate Bill 14 was passed during the regular legislative session and was signed by the Governor [Perry] in May. The law takes effect in 2012.
Currently, 27 other states have voter identification requirements. But when Texas’ takes effect, it will be among only six states that require photo ID to vote.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAnd we had to go through h*ll to get that thing passed. The Dems in the State Lege stopped it once before.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseCharity or general welfare?
If the point of in-state tuition is wealth-redistribution to benefit certain voters, then of course illegal immigrants shouldn't get it. But what if the point is to increase the overall education level of the state and its workers? Then it makes no sense to leave out illegal immigrants because they will be workers until the federal government gets serious about enforcement. And if it goes the way I would prefer - boder security followed by amnesty - then those illegal immigrants will be permanent workers.
If the community doesn't get some benefit from the government paying for education, then the government shouldn't be doing it. If the community does get some benefit then they'll get the benefit whether the students are legal or not.
I'm with Perry on this one (and with Hil. Clinton on driver's licenses) - don't cut off the community to spite the illegal immigrants.
I would like to know more about Perry's stance on border enforcement. How serious is he about it? Has he made it clear yet?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseCan you please explain to me what kind of jobs college-educated illegal aliens will be doing that will be so beneficial to society?
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"(The stuff about “pursuing citizenship” is meaningless chaff — there’s no such thing for people in this situation.)"
Actually, it's not just chaff; this is where the appeal for amnesty comes in - since that's the only way they could be "pursuing citizenship".
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt actually **is** just chaff in the sense that Krikorian means: The young geniuses [hah!] who are candidates for these state DREAM Acts, at least as Gov. Perry would have it, are supposed to assure us that they're seeking citizenship. But they're illegal aliens, with no way to "seek citizenship" except to pressure us for amnesty in those heartwarming mass demonstrations.
And, anyway, why should it thrill us that they'd like to be citizens? There's no benefit to us in that. To give a related example, when the 1996 law was passed that ended some public benefits for legal resident aliens, there was a flurry of applications to become citizens from these aliens. Most could have applied for citizenship many years before, but they only did it when they had to in order to avoid losing benefits.
In short, these and other aliens, legal or otherwise, are here mostly for the goodies. Such people are of zero benefit to the existing American nation and its polity.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt would seem that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMr. Krikorian, does the proverb 'You can't unring a bell' mean anything to you?
As a Texan who has lived with the flood across our southern border, I want the border secured and sanctuary cities abolished. I want criminal illegals deported as immediately as we can find them. From that point on I think we have to talk about what is do-able and humane.
What I don't want is a peasants with pitchforks approach to dealing with the illegal population.
We cannot unring the bell of the entire illegal immigrant population, and there is no sense in encouraging that idea for purely political purposes.
I also don't want to be immersed in the mindset that dismisses all human considerations for dealing with these people. In my opinion that is lynch mob mentality not justice.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm slightly appalled at the "citizenship" nonsense here.
PERMANENT RESIDENCE is what they are required in Texas to pursue.
That changes their status to LEGAL (that is a good thing, right?).
And I think it probable that a kid would EX-migrate back to Mexico with a good Texas education, to join the upper-class there.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI think you are right, and when this happens, I don't see how it could be anything but beneficial.
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