The news that Bank of America is going to charge customers $5 a month for using debit cards should come as no surprise at all to those who’ve been following that legislative monstrosity called Dodd-Frank. Following on from my previous post: There’s an excellent summary of just how the “bootleggers” of the big box stores joined with the anti-banking “Baptists” to kill off free checking by John Berlau over at Openmarket.
I have not done business with Bank of America in fifteen years. I have not directly done business with any major national bank in at least ten years.
Give me the local credit union or regional bank, where people remember whose money it really is.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseObviously, you made a mistake. This should read "BofA charges BofA Customers $5 a Month," unless you are a National Review poster, and thus totally beholden to the "job creators."
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAre you actually trying to claim that govt regulations have no cost?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseDodd Frank didn't mandate that BofA charge people $5 for debit cards, it just reduced the amount they could charge retailers. It was BofA's decision to try to make up this revenue by charging its customers. If enough of BofA's customers refuse to pay this $5 fee for having access to their own money, BofA will reverse this decision. Will we then say that Dodd Frank was responsible for them getting rid of the fee? No. The free market can survive DF if consumers remember that they are in control of their money.
My advice is that anyone that doesn't want to pay this fee should switch banks. Free checking with no debit fees is still something you can find at many community banks and credit unions.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYou admit that Dodd-Frank caused BofA to lose money, money that has to be made up somewhere.
So the fact that they chose to make up the loss of card revenue by charging card users instead of someone else, is the fault of BofA?
It doesn't bother you that the govt is telling a company what they can charge for their product?
If it's OK to dictate prices to banks, why don't we tell grocery stores what they may charge for milk?
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"If it's OK to dictate prices to banks, why don't we tell grocery stores what they may charge for milk?"
Ummm, we do. Many (most?) states set a minimum retail price for milk. Not that that makes Dodd-Frank any less idiotic, mind you.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseActually, it's the Fed that sets the minimum price of milk. Some law from back in the New Deal days. Oddly enough, the formula is based on the number of miles from your town to some town in Wisconsin. (Or least it used to be, they may have changed that part of the law in recent years.)
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI never said implied it was BofA's fault but that it was their choice. Dodd-Frank (which has many other problems) does not require BofA to recoup this lost revenue by charging a debit card fee. That choice is entirely up to BofA.
It used to be that banks made a nice steady profit in collecting deposits then investing that money (usually in the form of loaning it out to small businesses and people wanting to buy homes). But that business model wasn't very sexy on Wall Street during the early 90's and the stocks of old school banks lagged behind those of banks that found ways to generate "fee" revenue rather then making money through interest rate spread.
The quickest and easiest way to get BofA to reverse course is not trying to amend or repeal Dodd-Frank, but for enough customers to take their deposits out of BofA and move them to a bank that still believes it can make a profit serving its customers rather then exploiting them. Do you think that it costs BofA more to have a customer use a debit card for a transaction then it does for that customer to use a check? Yet it wants to charge people money for something that saves its money.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseMr. Murray,
The problems are more than this petty charge. I was told by my credit union that because of the new changes that as of 10/01/11 I would have to pay $25 a month for my business checking account in order for my credit union to pay the new federal fees.
I'm a "small" businessman with emphasis on "small". I can't afford this so I had to close my account yesterday and open a separate personal checking account (which is still free) and move my funds there.
This will create liability issues since from now on I have to invoice my customers using my personal name since I can no longer invoice using my LLC name.
Thank you federal government.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHere's the thing, though. Before the bank started charging you, SOMEBODY was paying for you to get that "free" service. The bank was quietly charging fees to people with much less control over whether to pay that fee and no ability to comparison shop for different fees. Did you check other banks to see what they would charge you for your business account?
Also, I'm not sure you need to start invoicing people in your personal name. Invoice them in the LLC name, and then when they write a check to the LLC, simply endorse it over from the LLC to you personally, and deposit it in your personal account. I'm not saying this resolves all liability issues, and the lack of a separate account may make it easier to "pierce the corporate veil," but I don't see a reason for you to stop invoicing through the LLC.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"simply endorse it over from the LLC to you personally, and deposit it in your personal account"
Current banking law prevent this. If the check is made out to an LLC it can only be depositied to a business checking account. You can't even cash it, at least not at my credit union.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm not aware of any such law. An LLC, like any other person or entity, can endorse as check however it sees fit, generally speaking. I'd ask your credit union to give you a copy of the law or rule which they claim prohibits this. It's been a long time since my commercial paper class, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't any LLC-specific rules regarding what they can do with checks.
Again, and I'm not giving you legal advice, depositing the checks in your personal account may still make it easier to pierce the corporate veil, but it's less likely to do so than if you simply stop using the LLC altogether and invoice and collect everything in your own personal name entirely.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSir,
It's federal law, enacted several years ago to keep me from hiding all those millions I get into off shore accounts. Business checks can only be deposited into business accounts. That way there's a record of the check available to the government to review. After it's in my
business account I can write a check to myself (also recorded for later government perusal)
I'll hazard a guess that you don't have a LLC or business checking account or this discussion would not be occurring. It would just be part of your everyday life.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYeah, the blame here is with the bank, not the statute. Besides, it costs almost $5 per use for a non-bank ATM transaction -- one could take the $5 monthly hit and use the debit card for cash back any number of times to avoid the hit on the ATMs. Smart consumers will get around these crazy fees every time.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHaving a $5 a month fee is preferable from a transparency perspective than having shady backroom transaction fees that get sliced, diced, and passed around between middlemen.
Putting fees out in front of consumers is a net benefit. The costs inherent in the system have always been paid, but consumers had little incentive to do any type of market based comparison shopping, since those fees were paid for by merchants and passed on in the form of higher prices by merchants.
There is also a net benefit for those of us who do not believe in banking. For the section of the country living in the "cash economy", why are we paying higher costs for everything we buy so that Bank of America's middle and upper income customers can have "free" checking accounts and "free" debit cards?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI have no love for the law, but I don't understand the attack on the "big box" stores. In fact, the per-transaction costs is a hidden fee on consumers. It is ultimately paid by them, but they are not aware of it, nor do they have an opportunity to bargain with the bank over what it is.
Moreover, while the transaction fees may average 1.19% of the charges, it actually varies depending on the card used. Cards which pay rewards back to the consumer charge a higher rate per transaction... but since the vendor is contractually prohibited from assessing the transaction fee as a separate charge to the consumer, the vendor must simply increase the total sales price of his goods to an amount sufficient to cover the fee. Thus, those of us who pay cash are subsidizing those who use credit and debit cards. Worse, those of us who pay cash or use a no-frills debit card (which gives no rewards and has a lower per-transaction fee) are subsidizing the free miles and other rewards of consumers who previously were using "rewards" cards which have a higher per-transaction fee.
The transaction fee is part and parcel of using the credit card. The cost should be more directly assessed on the person choosing to use the credit card, the consumer, not buried and hidden as the vendor's cost of doing business. Screw all the rewards card people.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseStrong points with which I totally agree. (I assume that you have all the details right.)
But why not charge the customer a few cents per transaction instead of a stiff five bucks per month? Not rocket science with modern computing power.
I absolutely favor putting the cost on those who use the service...THEIR costs and nothing more.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"But why not charge the customer a few cents per transaction instead of a stiff five bucks per month?"
My guess is consumer psychology.
Since they are still getting some money from the big boxes, just not as much as before, they want you to keep using the card. A per transaction card fee would cause many people to hesitate each time they use the card. A flat fee does not have this affect.
In general, we rarely pay exactly what a particular service costs. SOmetimes we pay less, because the sellers know that once they get us into the store, we will buy things that aren't on sale and their total profits will go up. Other times we pay more because the company knows that we consumers want that particular service a lot and are willing to pay for it.
The company that I am working for recently completed a project that most of the managers admitted will lose money because they don't believe many people will buy it. They built it because it completes our product line. They felt that the advantage of being able to advertise ourselves as offering a complete product line was worth more than the cost of completing this one product. The device was connected remote locations by radio rather than wire. They are hoping that even if our customers keep buying the wired versions, that in the future, when our customers need to rearrange their facilities because of growth or whatever, we will be able to sell them the wireless versions as a cheaper alternative to all that re-wiring.
My point is that while from a theoretical standpoint, charging each customer exactly what they are costing sounds wonderful, in the real world, things rarely work that way.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThere is that. On the other hand, debit/credit cards also saved the big boxes money.
Credit cards took a lot less time than checks did, so each cashier could handle more customers per hour.
Cash has to be counted, and there are always mistakes, you don't have to make change for a credit card.
Cash can be stolen and has to be transferred to safes periodically during the day.
The big boxes can alos refuse to accept a card that they feel charges too much. For several years I couldn't use my Visa card at Sam's Club.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe interchange fees that were regulated by the Durbin amendment were freely negotiated between retailers and the card issuers. The retailers thought they could get a better deal -- first through an antitrust action against Visa and Mastercard, and then through legislative muscle. The vendors benefit from accepting these cards, but they succeeded in increasing their benefit by offloading those costs onto other parties. Don't pretend this is some kind of victory for the little guy. This is the crassest sort of rent-seeking.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse