Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies (where I reign as the Great Helmsman), has penned a response to Chuck DeVore’s piece on the homepage today claiming to debunk our finding that 81 percent of the increase in jobs in Texas over the past four years went to recently arrived immigrants. I’ll include the response below the fold, but the two most important points are, first, that the gross flow of immigrants is more important for policy purposes than the net increase in the immigrant population, because the flow is what policymakers have the most control over, whereas the net increase is affected by deaths and out-migration. Second, even if DeVore prefers a net-to-net comparison, immigrants still got a disproportionate share of new jobs.
Response to Texas Public Policy Foundation
by Steven Camarota
Chuck DeVore of the Texas Public Policy Foundation has responded the recent Center for Immigration Studies report, “Who Benefited from Job Growth in Texas?“, both here at NRO and at the TPPF site. As co-author of the report in question, his response itself requires a response.
Our report found that most of the increase in employment in Texas from 2007 to 2011 went to newly arrived immigrants. DeVore does not dispute our numbers, he just doesn’t like our interpretation. His main criticism is that there is a lot of turnover in jobs, so you can’t look at who benefited from job growth. When thinking about this issue it is helpful to go over the figures. Here are the facts: Government data shows there were about 280,000 more people working in Texas in the second quarter of 2011 than in the same quarter of 2007. In the second quarter of 2011 there were 225,000 immigrants (legal and illegal) working in the state who indicated that they arrived in our country between the second quarter of 2007 and the second quarter of 2011. Thus the employment gains of newly arrived immigrants (225,000) equaled 81 percent of total employment growth (280,000). Over the same time period, the employment situation for native-born workers deteriorated significantly.
One is still free to argue that immigration so stimulates the economy that it offsets any job competition it creates. DeVore makes a half-hearted attempt to do so by stating that immigrants are more likely to start businesses. Actually, the data is clear that immigrants overall are somewhat less likely to operate their own business than the native-born. (See Table 9, p. 17 of this study) Thus one cannot argue that immigration creates jobs due to immigrants’ unusually high rates of entrepreneurship, though one could still argue there are other ways immigration benefits the economy.
DeVore’s central argument seems to be that you just can’t look at the employment numbers because there is so much churn in the labor market. But this is like arguing that a jump in unemployment from 5 to 10 percent does not matter, because workers are always gaining and losing jobs over time. Such an argument ignores the fact that it’s the end result of all that churn, those job gains and losses, that matters most. In fact, most employment statistics — such as jobs added each month or the unemployment rate — are an examination of the end result of what is always a lot of job turnover. It’s the same with Texas immigration.
Over a four-year period in Texas most of the net increase in employment went to newly arrived immigrants. As we make clear in our report, the native-born accounted for the vast majority (69 percent) of population growth from 2007 to 2011 among working-age adults (ages 16 to 65). In other words, natives made up most of the net growth in potential workers, but immigrants made up most of the growth of actual workers. As a result, the unemployment and the employment rates of natives show a marked deterioration over this time period. This last point can’t be emphasized enough.
Although Texas was one of the only states with a significant gain in employment (which may well have partly been the result, as DeVore points out, of sound tax and regulatory policies), the native-born did very poorly over this time period. Moreover, in the second quarter of 2011, the unemployment rate for natives in Texas was 8.1 percent, ranking the state 22nd out of 50 states for native employment. Even worse, the share of working-age natives holding a job (the employment rate) in Texas was 67 percent in 2011, ranking Texas 29th in the nation.
A more minor objection DeVore raises – with which he leads his NRO piece – is that the CIS report looked at net employment growth and compared it to the gross flow of new immigrants from abroad into Texas. We actually do a net-to-net comparison in our study (which DeVore acknowledges in his TPPF response, but not on NRO), and that comparison shows the same disproportionate benefit to immigrants; the number of immigrants working in Texas increased by 150,000 from the second quarter of 2007 to the second of 2011, at the same time the number of natives working increased 130,000. This means that 54 percent of overall employment growth went to immigrants, even though they accounted for only 31 percent of the increase in the working-age population. Net growth in the immigrant population is always smaller than new arrivals because each year some immigrants die and some go home. For example, new Census Bureau data show about 9 million growth in the immigrant population 2000 to 2010, even though 14 million immigrants arrived during the decade. The difference (5 million) is deaths and out-migration.
In our report we argue that the arrival of immigrants – the gross flow, as DeVore puts it – is the better yardstick than net growth in the immigrant population because from a policy perspective the flow of immigrants entering the country is the thing we have control over. Changes in the legal immigration program are policy decisions, as are changes in the level of enforcement against illegal immigration. The net increase in the immigrant population, on the other hand, is, as mentioned above, a function of deaths and out-migration, over which policy has much less influence. But if DeVore prefers the net numbers, then it is still the case that a disproportionate share of jobs went to immigrants.
One other point worth mentioning is that DeVore doubts our estimate that about half (123,000) of post-2007 immigrants who took a job were illegal aliens. He points out that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimates that the illegal population grew only 60,000 from January 1, 2007, to January 1, 2010. In fact, the DHS estimate is not inconsistent with our estimate. First, our estimates are for new arrivals, not net growth. As discussed above the number of new arrivals is always much larger than net growth because of deaths and out-migration, and in the case of illegals some also get legal status each year (i.e., they’re still here but they’ve left the illegal population through legalization). Net growth can easily be only half of new arrivals. Second, our figures for new illegal immigrants go to the middle of 2011, not the first day of 2010 as do the DHS estimates DeVore cites. Our results for Texas are consistent with DHS estimates.
The bottom line is that in Texas immigrants, not the native-born, have been the primary beneficiaries of job growth in the state. This is the case whether we look at the flow of newly arrived immigrants or the net growth in the immigrant population. It is also true even though the native-born accounted for the vast majority of population growth among those of working age. The existence of turnover in the labor market does not change these facts.
Other researchers have done similar analysis. See for example here and here. As one author looking at the national figures has argued, “Employers have chosen to use new immigrants over native-born workers and have continued to displace large numbers of blue-collar workers and young adults without college degrees.” We don’t even go that far in our report; we simply report the figures for immigrants and natives.
As I wrote on NRO recently, it matters a great deal that most job growth in Texas went to immigrants at the same time as the employment situation for the native-born deteriorated dramatically. Arguing that constant turnover in the labor market makes this kind of analysis invalid is obfuscation. In our view these numbers raise the question of whether it makes sense for the federal government to continue the current high level of legal immigration and for the federal and state governments to continue to tolerate illegal immigration. The reader can form his own conclusions.
"DeVore’s central argument seems to be that you just can’t look at the employment numbers because there is so much churn in the labor market."
This statement leads me to believe you don't understand DeVore's argument at all.
Let's look at a single hypothetical immigrant in the job market. Let's not unreasonably suppose that he finds a job, then when that one is over, finds another, and when that one is over finds another. Lets say over the 2009-2011 range, he holds 5 different jobs. In the CIS count, this isn't counted as a single immigrant getting hired five times, but rather as 5 distinct immigrants getting hired.
In short, the CIS count is necessarily double-counting some immigrants, and almost certainly triple- and quadruple- counting still others. This flaw makes the CIS count of immigrant hires meaningless as compared to net jobs created. At most, it provides an upper bound to what percentage of jobs went to immigrants, but beyond that, it doesn't even suffice as a reasonable estimate, never mind a valid statistic.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseNice try, but there's no double-counting. It's a comparison of two snapshots of how many people are working, one in 2007, the second in 2011, so a single immigrant who's hired five times during that time period is *not* counted as five people. Try looking through the report itself, which only has about four and half pages of text: External Link
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseUnfortunately, everybody in this debate is living out a political Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle when it comes to any count of illegal aliens.
Devore's study is fatally flawed, and Camarota's rebuttal is a good refutation of Devore's politcally motivated attempt to put lipstick on the Rick Perry immigration pig.
But as I said in my comments to Devore in his NRO article, we are dealing with what Don Rumsfeld so logically and rationally referred to as "unknown unknowns". Like Heisenberg's postulation that even if we can't pinpoint that rascally little electron, we know he's in there somewhere, likewise illegal aliens for the most part live in the shadows and off the books and are unknown unknowns as regard to their numbers, locations, and actions.
Illegals don't advertise their presence. They don't check in at the border. They don't get SS Numbers and Form 1040s. We have no grasp as to how big the problem is, only (semi) educated guesses based on uncertain data from government agencies who themselves have no way of getting accurate counts.
While most of its research is pretty good, CIS itself too often waxes dogmatic on analyses it can not substantiate. One worst example - the actual number of illegal aliens in the United States. It's unknowable. It's unguessable.
That number has been hovering at about 11 million since it first showed up in a "study" circa 2002. Nine years later it's still 11 million? That's what CIS says. Common sense and empirical observation by even the casual inspector knows that the illegal alien footprint has grown immensely since 2002.
US border agencies claim roughly 200,000 - 300,000 apprehensions at the border and admit that's about a quarter of the amount actually "entering without inspection". So how does the number hover at 11 million? It should be about 20 million if the 2002 numbers were correct and the border agency admissions are correct.
I repeat my point to Devore - to find out the true number of illegals in the USA - offer them unconditional amnesty, and like the first amnesty in 1986, you will find three times the number of illegals come out of the woodwork.
Oh - that's hypothetical - please DON'T offer amnesty to those 11 million (30 million?) illegals.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseFair enough, Mark. I clearly misconstrued DeVore's argument. No, I hadn't delved into the numbers. Mea culpa.
Having delved into the numbers, I think I see what DeVore was getting at, namely measuring a ratio of total population to job gains.
Are the ratios as measured in the CIS study a measure of immigrants getting an unfair share of jobs, or is it a measure of how likely immigrants are to leave the state if they don't get jobs?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI suggest to JamesD that he actually read and analyze the report before he makes foolish comments.
Bottom line: Perry's so-called job gains have done little to help native born workers.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm sure the wonks are all reading this with bated breath.
One thing I've noticed about illegal immigrants in the area of north Dallas where I live, and that is that many of them are engaging in their own off-the-books businesses. We are always being solicited in our neighborhood by those doing contract work like tree services, landscaping, house painting and other residential-service work. I doubt those kinds of entrepreneurship by illegals would show up in your data.
You started this exchange with false assumption that the Perry leadership in Texas is pro-illegal immigration and not doing enough to stem the tide. You're just off-base and detached from the realities on the ground. If the Democrats of Texas and their media allies had their way in the past couple of election cycles here, we'd have rolled out the red carpet to illegals. They certainly have painted Governor Perry as a heartless devil on the issue. Not heartless enough according to you.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHow in the heck can anybody KNOW that "second quarter of 2011 there were 225,000 immigrants (legal and illegal) working in the state who indicated that they arrived in our country between the second quarter of 2007 and the second quarter of 2011"????
How is it even remotely possible to get this type of accuracy? What is the breakdown in illegal vs legal?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGood job Steve. It's sad to see that DeVore, after his embarrassing Senate run, now is just a cheap labor, mass immigration shill.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI wish the anti-immigration forces would make up your minds. Do illegal immigrants impose a burden on the welfare state or do they take jobs from Americans? They can hardly do both.
Any state that implements policies that increase economic opportunity will attract internal migrants (from the rest of the U.S.), legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants. I don't see any point in dissecting this with a fine-toothed comb.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse*Of course* illegal immigrants can both take jobs and burden the welfare state. After all, post-1996 welfare is a subsidy for the working poor with children, and what are immigrants but the working poor with children? It's true that illegals place somewhat less of a burden on welfare because they're not eligible for as many programs, but their kids are, and it's the parents who get the money (or non-cash benefit).
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThey can do both. Their children (3-4 on average) attend public schools and the whole family gets its medical care for free at public hospital emergency rooms. The American whose job they took is receiving unemployment benefits or food stamps
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThey can do both. One million immigrants come into the country and take jobs, another million come in and get welfare. Americans lose jobs, and those still working pay more taxes to support the non-working aliens. Also, a manual laborer making 25,000 comes with 4 children; in NJ where I live their education can easily run 80,000 annually. We pay for that.
As to the argument that a state that create jobs will attract legal and illegal immigrants. Sure it will, but(enforced) laws limiting immigration will mean they can't get here nor take the jobs should they sneak in.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYou present a silly false choice, about as silly as DeVores's easily debunked undergraduate-level column.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseFor ten years Governor Perry has enforced a Texas Sanctuary State for illegal aliens.
Perry was the first governor to sign into law in-state-tuition to subsidize the "higher education" of adult illegals.
During 2006-07 Perry endorsed "free flow" defacto open borders and blanket amnesty to reward illegal aliens crashing U.S. borders legal status to -in his words: "LEGITIMIZE their economic contributions".
70% of illegals in Texas are on government welfare, over 50% of Hispanics/illegals don't graduate--and 80% plus of newly created jobs in Texas since 2007 went to foreign born and illegals--NOT unemployed U.S. citizens.
Perry proposed Bi-National healthcare with Mexico--and strongly advocated the Eminent Domain confiscation of private property to build a "Trans-Texas Corridor" over which America would not have full sovereignty.
Globalyst Perry, quote; "President Fox's views for an open border is a vision I endorse."
For ten years Perry has rejected the key state laws that would put an end to his sanctuary state.
Perry ridiculed as "idiocy" the border to keep illegals out.
Perry opposed implimenting R-Verify to stop illegals from hijacking private & public sector jobs from unemployed U.S. citizens.
Perry opposed the Arizona Law to apprehend illegals.
In 2010 the La Raza pandering Perry addressed the National Council of La Raza ("The Race")--to assure that racist organization that the Arizona Law would not come to Texas.
Crony capitalist Rick Perry's Sanctuary State overrunning America is not soley the "state's rights" prerogative of border state Texas. It is the business of every "No Heart" U.S. taxpayer and unemployed citizen.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"means that 54 percent of overall employment growth went to immigrants, even though they accounted for only 31 percent of the increase in the working-age population."
So, by the numbers, There were 150,000 more immigrant jobs, and 130,000 more native jobs. Those numbers look rounded, and they also clearly are self-defined by your own write-up. You obviously didn't talk to 280,000 people and get their data. You definitely didn't talk to the 280,000 people who got jobs in the last 4 years. In fact, I can't even tell if your 130,000 number came out of actual data, or was simply a subtraction of 280,000 from 150,000.
Assuming it was, what if immigrants tended to over-report the "recentness" of their arrival, or their employment status? What if 20% of them, being here illegally, didn't want to admit they had no job, or that their job was actually an illegal job off-the-books (and therefore not part of the 280,000. Is that hard to imagine?
That would mean that rather than 150,000, there would really be 120,000 more immigrant jobs. Which would mean 160,000 native jobs. Which would set the ratio at 42% vs 58%, much closer to your 31% rise in population.
And if the rise in population was skewed by 10%, it might be that the numbers are within the margin of error.
But the biggest thing to note is that, even if your numbers are precisely accurate, 54% of the jobs is NOT 81% of the jobs. The 81% number is a bogus statistical slight of hand.
The whole argument is stupid, because government can do little more than get out of the way and let business grow to create jobs. And when business hires people, we don't want government telling them who to hire. If business chooses to hire a legal immigrant over a native-born, that isn't the fault of government, or the Governor.
And it's not his fault if they hire illegals either. The federal government is supposed to control our borders, and arrest and deport illegals. If the feds don't do their job, blaming a Governor for pro-business policies simply because illegals are here and got the jobs is stupid.
It's like our argument is that Perry should have screwed up the Texas economy, because by being so successful at job growth, he is just encouraging illegals to come into his state.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse81% sounds a lot sexier than 53%, and when you notice it's still relying on flawed methodology at that.
It wasn't a "minor" point that was raised. It was showing the entire rationale was focused on using sleight of hand.
I know Mark is required to defend in public the work of his researchers, but perhaps he should really think of hiring a new research guy.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"If the feds don't do their job, blaming a Governor for pro-business policies simply because illegals are here and got the jobs is stupid."
We don't blame him for the Stupid Fed policies, we blame him for his stupid State policies. Between stopping E-Verify, moving ahead with the Dream Act, looking at cross border medical plans, criticizing Arizona's real attempts to stop the Invasion, etc. etc. Perry has made Texas a magnet for illegals and has no business in the White House. NumbersUSA.com give him a generous D- on Illegal Immigration. That's what Democrats are for.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseQuote: "... because government can do little more than get out of the way and let business grow to create jobs. And when business hires people, we don't want government telling them who to hire."
Excellent! And when a rebellious population, or foreign troops, come to seize those business, let us be sure that they are not defended by government force at taxpayer expense. After all, the government can do little more than get out of the way! And when the businesses attempt to sue each other, let the court system bar them from entry, because government can do little more than get out of the way!
And surely we do not want government telling businesses whom to hire, any more than I want businesses to tell me to "buy American."
It's too bad that libertarian types don't wear armband labels. If they did, then I could avoid dialing 911 if one of them asks me to do it.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseData from the Census showed huge numbers of CITIZENS from other states (mostly blue states) moving to TX over the past decade.
I'm shocked to find out that they moved there so they could be unemployed because illegals from Mexico had taken all the jobs.
Your thesis is nonsense. The LEGAL internal immigration of US Citizens to TX over the past 10 years was driven by the fact that TX is where jobs were being created.
Did illegals get a good chunk of those jobs? Sure. 80%? You're out of your mind if you think that's an accurate number.
Rather than focusing on illegals, why don't you run an analysis of the legal internal migration to TX and find out how many Citizens moved there and got jobs there. Subtract that from the total created over the period and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of illegals that got jobs.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe related question is not whether citizens moved to Texas to get jobs (I'm sure they did, since it's been going on for some time). Rather, it's whether the jobs have been moving to Texas because it is a more worker-unfriendly state (you call it business-friendly). If that's the case, then it won't play out well on a national scale.
Also, workers moving to an area does not imply that there are jobs in that area, only that there is the perception of jobs. This is why, in general, the unemployment rate goes up at the beginning of an economic recovery: More unemployed workers enter the job market, but the jobs are not yet there.
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