Last week, Reason TV followed investment guru Peter Schiff as he spent three hours with the Occupy Wall Street protesters in Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park.
An unapologetic member of the 1 percent, Schiff argued with all comers for the better part of an afternoon.
The most interesting part of this video is the moment when Schiff explains to one of the protestors that he employs 150 people. Then, he asks, “How many people do you employ?”
We can argue about whether the tax code is progressive enough; we can argue about whether the proper measure of progressivity is the federal tax bill or the overall tax bill. But one thing that is always omitted from this debate is what the top earners contribute to society beyond the taxes they pay — such as the fact that they employ people, that they create value for the consumers of the goods and services they produce, and that they support charitable organizations. It is worth thinking about.
This from The Tennessean on the protests in Nashville:
"Occupy Nashville counters that the state created the safety problems by not patrolling the plaza. Without a law enforcement presence, they said, the occupiers were quickly overwhelmed by homeless, drawn to the free food and shelter the movement offered."
Am I the only one struck by the irony in that paragraph? The Great Unwashed are overwhelmed by the . . . great unwashed.
Peter Schiff is in the minority, even among the 1% apparently:
Warren Buffett isn’t the only rich guy who wants to higher taxes on the rich.
A new survey from Spectrem Group found that 68% of millionaires (those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income. Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners.
Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers.
Rich people’s opinions of Buffett remain fairly positive in the wake of his tax-me-more crusade. More than a third of millionaires and ultra-high-net-worths said they have a more positive opinion of Buffett after his tax proposal. Only 19% of millionaires and 22% of the $5 million -plus group said they had a more negative opinion of him after the proposal.
More than 40% of both groups said their opinion hadn’t changed.
In other words, Buffett’s proposal had more supporters than detractors among the rich — though that support declines slightly as you move up the wealth ladder.
Explains George Walper of Spectrem: “What this tells us is that there are a number of wealthy folks who said: ‘Gee, we need to increase taxes to stimulate the economy. No one likes to be taxed more, but the reality is maybe it has to be done.’ ”
And these millionaires know that since Obama considers income of $250,000+ as a millionaire income, there will be much push back by republicans not to increase taxes so these actual millionaires can say that want increased taxes knowing that it won't happen (hopefully).
It is important to note that Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway owes billions in back taxes to the IRS. I suspect his willingness to be the face of President Obama's tax-the-rich meme, is an attempt to curry a bit of favor and perhaps leverage in the case.
I call B.S. any way you look at it. Either surveys like this are intentionally misleading via the questions asked and/or results given, or the millionaires being surveyed are lying through their teeth.
It just isn't plausible.
Either they can cut an extra check to the fed (as has been suggested by conservatives ad nauseam) and choose not to, or they can eschew any and all deductions and tax loopholes, and choose not to.
It's complete B.S. It doesn't pass the smell test. No one wants to be taxed more. No one.
Peter Schiff is in the minority, even among the 1% apparently:
Warren Buffett isn’t the only rich guy who wants to higher taxes on the rich.
A new survey from Spectrem Group found that 68% of millionaires (those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income. Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners.
Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers.
Rich people’s opinions of Buffett remain fairly positive in the wake of his tax-me-more crusade. More than a third of millionaires and ultra-high-net-worths said they have a more positive opinion of Buffett after his tax proposal. Only 19% of millionaires and 22% of the $5 million -plus group said they had a more negative opinion of him after the proposal.
More than 40% of both groups said their opinion hadn’t changed.
In other words, Buffett’s proposal had more supporters than detractors among the rich — though that support declines slightly as you move up the wealth ladder.
Explains George Walper of Spectrem: “What this tells us is that there are a number of wealthy folks who said: ‘Gee, we need to increase taxes to stimulate the economy. No one likes to be taxed more, but the reality is maybe it has to be done.’ ”
"Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers."
He said it, but it is not true. While some of the ultra rich pay lower rates than everyday workers that is hardly true for the typical ultra rich.
From the Spectrem Group's website... "People’s views also depends on their wealth levels. A recent survey by Spectrem Group of those making $1 million or more found that 62% agreed that taxes were “a major concern,” and 44% advocated a flat tax as “the most equitable” federal and state tax"
If Warren Buffett wants to pay more taxes, he can do that, as can all those millionaires and billionaires who agree with him. Mr. Buffett can also call off his tax attorneys who are currently "negotiating" with the IRS to prevent it from collecting more than $1 billion in unpaid business taxes. If the 68% you reference voluntarily pay more to Uncle Sam that would be a considerable revenue increase and there's absolutely nothing stopping them from doing that.
Ah! But you see, THEY don't want to pay more taxes. They buy influence (a la Buffett, Immelt), so that the political elite will make US pay more taxes... where and how THEY want.
The hypocrisy is absurdly obvious. Unfortunately, our electorate is easily duped, blinded (and ignorant)from years and years of educational erosion and manipulation. Where are the parental figures of these spoiled, rich (by many standards) brats? My guess is that most work for the Federal Spending Machine.
1) "those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income".
those people could be generating - from an investment portfolio of $1million - no more than $75,000 or so (maybe it's $100k, maybe it's $50,000, or maybe it's $40k in taxfree bonds) so their supposed support for taxes on $1millionPlus "incomes" doesn't impact the poll responder's income in any way ... therefore your straw bucket doesn't hold water here.
2) "Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners."
As in #1, to make this person's opinion relevant (as in, 'has some skin in the game'), an investment portfolio of $5million would have to be returning 20% per year (i.e., unlikely and certainly not the norm), therefore their income wouldn't be affected, therefore not relevant to your thrust.
But nice try - it's a good example of how polls are used as a spin tool.
This from The Tennessean on the protests in Nashville:
"Occupy Nashville counters that the state created the safety problems by not patrolling the plaza. Without a law enforcement presence, they said, the occupiers were quickly overwhelmed by homeless, drawn to the free food and shelter the movement offered."
Am I the only one struck by the irony in that paragraph? The Great Unwashed are overwhelmed by the . . . great unwashed.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWhat, police was not protecting them from people who want free stuff?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbusePeter Schiff is in the minority, even among the 1% apparently:
Warren Buffett isn’t the only rich guy who wants to higher taxes on the rich.
A new survey from Spectrem Group found that 68% of millionaires (those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income. Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners.
Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers.
Rich people’s opinions of Buffett remain fairly positive in the wake of his tax-me-more crusade. More than a third of millionaires and ultra-high-net-worths said they have a more positive opinion of Buffett after his tax proposal. Only 19% of millionaires and 22% of the $5 million -plus group said they had a more negative opinion of him after the proposal.
More than 40% of both groups said their opinion hadn’t changed.
In other words, Buffett’s proposal had more supporters than detractors among the rich — though that support declines slightly as you move up the wealth ladder.
Explains George Walper of Spectrem: “What this tells us is that there are a number of wealthy folks who said: ‘Gee, we need to increase taxes to stimulate the economy. No one likes to be taxed more, but the reality is maybe it has to be done.’ ”
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThere's not a damned thing stopping them from mailing the IRS a big fat donation.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAnd these millionaires know that since Obama considers income of $250,000+ as a millionaire income, there will be much push back by republicans not to increase taxes so these actual millionaires can say that want increased taxes knowing that it won't happen (hopefully).
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWarren Buffet wants higher taxes on the rich, because that will make him a lot of money.
He sells services to the rich to help them avoid taxes.
I might also add that the taxes that Buffet wants raised, won't impact him.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt is important to note that Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway owes billions in back taxes to the IRS. I suspect his willingness to be the face of President Obama's tax-the-rich meme, is an attempt to curry a bit of favor and perhaps leverage in the case.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners."
Maybe, but having a net worth of $5 million and earning a million plus annually are two completely different things.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI call B.S. any way you look at it. Either surveys like this are intentionally misleading via the questions asked and/or results given, or the millionaires being surveyed are lying through their teeth.
It just isn't plausible.
Either they can cut an extra check to the fed (as has been suggested by conservatives ad nauseam) and choose not to, or they can eschew any and all deductions and tax loopholes, and choose not to.
It's complete B.S. It doesn't pass the smell test. No one wants to be taxed more. No one.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbusePeter Schiff is in the minority, even among the 1% apparently:
Warren Buffett isn’t the only rich guy who wants to higher taxes on the rich.
A new survey from Spectrem Group found that 68% of millionaires (those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income. Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners.
Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers.
Rich people’s opinions of Buffett remain fairly positive in the wake of his tax-me-more crusade. More than a third of millionaires and ultra-high-net-worths said they have a more positive opinion of Buffett after his tax proposal. Only 19% of millionaires and 22% of the $5 million -plus group said they had a more negative opinion of him after the proposal.
More than 40% of both groups said their opinion hadn’t changed.
In other words, Buffett’s proposal had more supporters than detractors among the rich — though that support declines slightly as you move up the wealth ladder.
Explains George Walper of Spectrem: “What this tells us is that there are a number of wealthy folks who said: ‘Gee, we need to increase taxes to stimulate the economy. No one likes to be taxed more, but the reality is maybe it has to be done.’ ”
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse%snicker%
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseA couple of thoughts...
"Buffett, as you might recall, has proposed raising taxes on million-plus earners, saying the ultra-rich pay lower rates than everyday workers."
He said it, but it is not true. While some of the ultra rich pay lower rates than everyday workers that is hardly true for the typical ultra rich.
From the Spectrem Group's website... "People’s views also depends on their wealth levels. A recent survey by Spectrem Group of those making $1 million or more found that 62% agreed that taxes were “a major concern,” and 44% advocated a flat tax as “the most equitable” federal and state tax"
External Link
I tried to find the poll you quoted but could not. Would you please provide a citation.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIf Warren Buffett wants to pay more taxes, he can do that, as can all those millionaires and billionaires who agree with him. Mr. Buffett can also call off his tax attorneys who are currently "negotiating" with the IRS to prevent it from collecting more than $1 billion in unpaid business taxes. If the 68% you reference voluntarily pay more to Uncle Sam that would be a considerable revenue increase and there's absolutely nothing stopping them from doing that.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAh! But you see, THEY don't want to pay more taxes. They buy influence (a la Buffett, Immelt), so that the political elite will make US pay more taxes... where and how THEY want.
The hypocrisy is absurdly obvious. Unfortunately, our electorate is easily duped, blinded (and ignorant)from years and years of educational erosion and manipulation. Where are the parental figures of these spoiled, rich (by many standards) brats? My guess is that most work for the Federal Spending Machine.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIf you're going to post someone else's words, please credit the source.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusesee my post at 8:10 am
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAnd the reason they don't voluntarily pay higher taxes already is because why?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSlide,
Not gonna let you slide ....
1) "those with investments of $1 million or more) support raising taxes on those with $1 million or more in income".
those people could be generating - from an investment portfolio of $1million - no more than $75,000 or so (maybe it's $100k, maybe it's $50,000, or maybe it's $40k in taxfree bonds) so their supposed support for taxes on $1millionPlus "incomes" doesn't impact the poll responder's income in any way ... therefore your straw bucket doesn't hold water here.
2) "Fully 61% of those with net worths of $5 million or more support the tax on million-plus earners."
As in #1, to make this person's opinion relevant (as in, 'has some skin in the game'), an investment portfolio of $5million would have to be returning 20% per year (i.e., unlikely and certainly not the norm), therefore their income wouldn't be affected, therefore not relevant to your thrust.
But nice try - it's a good example of how polls are used as a spin tool.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSorry for the double post. Was trying to supply below link to survey article.
External Link
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbusePeter Schiff is the Ron Paul of Connecticut. People laugh at him there.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse