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Riding Through the Glen?

Via the New York Times:

They call it the Robin Hood tax — a tiny levy on trades in the financial markets that would take money from the banks and give it to the world’s poor.

And like the mythical hero of Sherwood Forest, it is beginning to capture the public’s imagination.

Driven by populist anger at bankers as well as government needs for more revenue, the idea of a tax on trades of stocks, bonds and other financial instruments has attracted an array of influential champions, including the leaders of France and Germany, the billionaire philanthropists Bill Gates and George Soros, former Vice President Al Gore, the consumer activist Ralph Nader, Pope Benedict XVI and the archbishop of Canterbury.

“We all agree that a financial transaction tax would be the right signal to show that we have understood that financial markets have to contribute their share to the recovery of economies,” the chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, told her Parliament recently.

As a reminder, here’s what Britain’s finance minister George Osborne had to say about this tax:

There is not a single banker in this world that is going to pay this tax. There are no banks that are going to pay this tax. The people who will pay this tax are pensioners”.  

That’s an exaggeration, but nevertheless a heavy proportion of this tax would be levied on savers, making it much more of a Sheriff of Nottingham tax than anything that Robin of Sherwood would endorse.

The Times quotes Glenn Hubbard (chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under George W. Bush) making a similar point:

“Such a tax isn’t really going to get at the banks,” added Mr. Hubbard, who is now an adviser to the Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney. “It’s going to hit the people who own the assets that are traded,” like investors.

It would be good if the tax’s “influential champions” would have the honesty to admit that fact.

As for the tax being “tiny,” it is indeed small in terms of the overall value of the transactions concerned, but as the Times duly notes, opponents of the tax are highlighting the fact that it could represent a very substantial addition to current dealing costs. They are right to do so. It would.

New on The Corner. . .


COMMENTS   53

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   12/07/11 10:15

Are pensioners traders or investors? Are pension funds traders or investors?

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   12/07/11 10:38

Are you really that clueless ?

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   12/07/11 11:54

That was a rhetorical question, right?

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   12/07/11 10:42

The short answer to both questions is usually "yes". Anyone not on the kind of defined benefits pension plan beloved of government workers and the industry-destroying parasitic unions gets their money from an investment portfolio of some kind. Nearly all investment portfolios are actively managed to maximize returns and balance risks, which means that they constantly added and remove stocks, bonds and other assets as market conditions change. And the fund managers charge fees for this stuff. Any increase to the cost of trading will be passed on to investors in the form of increased management fees.
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Or did you think these things were done with unicorns and rainbows at no cost to anybody?

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   12/07/11 10:24

Like all "business" taxes, they will get passed on to the lowest common demoninator -- the customer, the client, the investor.

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   12/07/11 10:25

Yes indeed. A tiny transaction tax hits "pensioners"... not day traders and speculators making thousands of trades every week

Just as a slightly higher tax on million-dollar incomes will devastate "small business and job creators."

Keep saying it, guys. I'm pretty sure the public is buying it ;-)

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   12/07/11 10:37

most trades are done on behalf of pension portfolio's so yes, most of this "tax/fee" will be charged to pensioners ...

In the fable Robin Hood stole from the Sheriff what the Sheriff had previously stolen from the people. Profits are not theft no matter how you spin it becasue if that is true then anyone with a job is stealing since they are profiting via their labor.

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   12/07/11 10:48

"most trades are done on behalf of pension portfolio's"

Um, what? I highly, highly doubt this is true. Do you have any actual evidence showing that it is true?

I should point out that private businesses - such as say, Goldman Sachs - do a tremendous amount of proprietary trading. Are you keeping this in mind when making such claims?

Pensioners will barely notice this tax, but high-volume institutional and day traders? Oh, yes, they certainly will notice it, which is the entire point. The fee is a good idea and it should be implemented.

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 ds
   12/07/11 11:00

Wow, appropriate Captcha: "Sacred Cow."

TheFish is right. Where are your numbers for your claim that "most trades are done on behalf of pension portfolio's"? The reality is that 60% of all trades are algorithmic trades. SOME substantial proportion of the rest are day traders. Pension/retirement funds probably wouldn't pay 10% of this tax.

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Stuart
   12/07/11 10:52

You are absolutely right that the transaction tax will hurt the speculators and day traders. However, those day traders and speculators making their thousands of trades every week are responsible for keeping prices aligned across related markets, keeping the bid/ask spreads small, and providing liquidity. Tax their transactions and they go away, making markets less efficient, less liquid, and ultimately more expensive for users, like the pensioners (or those managing their money). So, go ahead and stick it to the finance industry with a transaction tax; just don't be surprised when your 401(k) also tanks as a result.

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   12/07/11 11:04

"Tax their transactions and they go away"

BS. Where are they going to go? To do regular work all day? Do you KNOW any day traders?

I reject your assertion that people will stop working in the face of small fees; it's as false as the assertion that slightly higher marginal taxes will cause people to stop working. Both are not reflective of the reality of life as we have seen it.

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Stuart
   12/07/11 11:55

I work at a trading firm, so yes, I know lots of professional traders. Do you know any?

When you tax an activity, less of that activity will occur. Which I assume is your motive, because you have decided that financial transactions are the root of all evil. Trading won't go away, but it will become more expensive. Firms like mine will likely need to trade less and charge users more (via a larger bid/ask spread) to compensate for a financial transaction tax. That's assuming we can survive -- some firms will probably fold as a result of a transaction tax, and some traders will be out of work. But isn't that your goal? Less financial activity and less profit for financial firms? That will fix all our problems, right?

Ultimately, if a transaction tax is imposed, users of the markets will have to pay more not only due to the tax, but due to the secondary effects of market inefficiency, liquidity, and increased spreads. Taxation has consequences. You are welcome to favor this tax, but please recognize the consequences.

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   12/07/11 11:57

Do you honestly believe that nobody changes their behavior when their costs change?

Why is it that liberals insist on displaying their ignorance for all the world to see?

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   12/07/11 12:05

"Do you honestly believe that nobody changes their behavior when their costs change?"

Unless they change substantially, no. Research has shown this to be true time and time again. Just look into the amount commodity prices have to change before people start adjusting their base behaviors by more than a tiny amount.

Wait, what am I saying? You repeatedly displayed that you don't care at all about truth, accuracy, facts, or the historical record. But you're heavily invested in spreading lies and false assertions online, where you're never required to back anything up and can always just abandon the conversation when it is pointed out that you are incorrect.

Just a waste of everyone's time as usual...

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   12/07/11 14:30

The problem with you Fish, is that you actually believe that the drivel that you are trying to sell, is the truth. So it comes as a great surprise to you when nobody except your fellow travellers believes it.

While it is true that small changes in marginal prices will impose only small changes in behavior, they still do change behavior.

That is a fact. Whether you want to deal with it or just continue spreading your lies, is your business.

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   12/07/11 11:56

Do you honestly believe that companies do not pass their costs on to their customers?

Do you also believe in unicorns?

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Charles Smith
   12/07/11 10:35

What is it that the usual suspects don't understand about taxation.
1. It's not your money but you can get a nice warm fuzzy feeling about yourself by doing this.
2. It's the property of the millions of careful people who invested.
3. I would bet that most of it will be ripped off by third world bandits.

Don't they know anything or perhaps they hope most people don't.
Are they stupid or just dishonest?

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   12/07/11 10:37

This is not the Robin Hood tax, it is the Sheriff of Nottingham tax. Robin Hood stole from the government, the sheriff in that case, and gave to the citizens. This new tax takes from the citizens and gives to the government to spend as they see fit. What kind of bizarro world is it that would name this the Robin Hood tax. Oh I remember the masses are asses.

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   12/07/11 10:38

Wow, someone else who remembers Richard Greene as Robin Hood. Of course, he is a Brit.

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   12/07/11 10:45

This sounds less like "Robin Hood" and more like "Dennis Moore" from the old MONTY PYTHON sketch.
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External Link  (Video)
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External Link  (Transcript)
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"Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the land
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Without a merry band
He steals from the poor, and gives to the rich
... Stupid b**ch."
.
Regards,
.
Joe

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