Kathryn, Rich, and Nina have already done a wonderful job of reminding and informing us of what many Christians around the world have experienced this year, and at Christmas. We may also want to remember particularly at this time two additional people, Asia Bibi and Yousef Nadarkhani, whose imprisonment and death sentences crystallize the situation of many in the church.
Though the Iranian government denies it, Pastor Nadarkhani continues to face the death penalty for apostasy, that is, for having become a Christian. In a very unusual move, probably triggered by international attention to the case, the courts — after pronouncing a sentence of death — have twice referred the case to Ayatollah Khamenei, the country’s “Supreme Leader.” As yet, Khamenei has issued no decision. Christian Solidarity Worldwide states that it has received unconfirmed reports that any execution may be delayed for up to a year to allow time to convince Pastor Nadarkhani to renounce his faith.
In Pakistan, Asia Bibi, a Christian mother of five, still faces the death penalty for allegedly blaspheming Mohammed. Punjab governor Salman Taseer and Federal Minorities Minister Shahbaz Bhatti were both killed this past year for defending her and opposing Pakistan’s blasphemy laws. The Fides news agency reports that she needs medical care to ward off mental illness. An international delegation from the Masihi Foundation, overseeing Bibby’s legal and material assistance, visited her on December 19 in the prison in Sheikpura, where she has been held for more than a year, and is currently in isolation. They report that she had not been allowed to bathe for more than two months, could not stand on her own, appeared confused, and was afraid to accept the water they offered her to drink. Nevertheless, she told them she has forgiven those who accused her of blasphemy and only wants to return to her family.
Haroon Barkat Masih, the international director of the Masihi Foundation, said: “Recently, Pope Benedict XVI visited the prisoners in an Italian prison: We believe that, through his gesture, we have symbolically included all the prisoners in the world and even Asia Bibi, who will spend a sad Christmas, in solitude in a cell. We call on all Christians around the world to remember Asia Bibi to the Lord, on Christmas Eve, and to raise a prayer for her.” And for Pastor Nadarkhani, and many others.
— Paul Marshall is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute’s Center for Religious Freedom and co-author, with Nina Shea, of the just released Silenced: How Apostasy and Blasphemy Codes are Choking Freedoms Worldwide (Oxford University Press, 2011).
Time for me to be the Bad Person again. I find Mr. Haroon's statement to be kind...overly so. "“Recently, Pope Benedict XVI visited the prisoners in an Italian prison." Seriously, what does this have to do with Christians being persecuted worldwide, other than the fact that they're in prison? Hugo Chavez or Castro probably called for us to Free Mumia. Mumia's in prison, therefore such an appeal is comparable to an appeal on behalf of Christians imprisoned BECAUSE OF THEIR FAITH? Uh, no. It's swell that the Pope visited a prison. Stinky places, generally, even if they clean up for your visit. Nonetheless, for him to stretch his legs within Italy and visit criminals who in all probability are guilty of crimes against their fellow man is hardly comparable to the other imprisonments mentioned in the post by Mr. Marshall. Truly a pathetic ending to an otherwise effective summary of persecution of those who follow "Masahi" -- the Messiah.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseA little grace would serve far better here.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusecb_10, Sure. Since you're being so graceful, why don't you provide a bit more detail in your instruction to me (the Bad Person).
Much of what Our Lord said and what the apostolic letters contain is criticism. We are commanded to "Tell the truth in love." For many so-called Christians that means if "the truth" is negative then they don't tell the truth.
Are you saying that Jesus and the Apostles were not loving when they told the truth?
Yeah, probably. For you the Bible is probably optional. You just attend the proper ceremonies and then observe the commandment of Satan: "be nice."
I look forward to your dissertation on the subject of grace now. Should be interesting to see how graceful you are...
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseChrist can see into my flawed heart and mind. You clearly can't. You're certainly capable of making erroneous judgments about me, including false assumptions about my theological perspective. I'll chalk this up to someone building straw men to knock down rather than the deliberate bearing of false witness. Neither instance is laudable. Neither instance is telling the truth in love.
Grace is the offering of forgiveness where it is undeserved. Christ used as just one example a man who had a debt to the king that he could never possibly repay. The king forgave the debt. This man then responded by going to a man who owed him a small debt and demanded that it be repaid. When the king found out he confronted the first man who had his massive debt forgiven.
"“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." (Matthew 18: 32-34)
We have had a debt canceled that we cannot repay. Shouldn't we have grace enough regarding whatever debts or grievances have been set against us?
You went out of your way to criticize a comment by an individual who offered a great deal of information about persecuted Christians, simply because he included a reference to the Pope visiting the imprisoned (something Christ expects Christians to do - see the parable of the sheep and the goats). I have no idea what set this off, but it's entirely out of proportion to the "offense."
The harshest criticism offered by Our Savior was reserved for those who played at being holy (the hypocritical, sanctimonious Pharisees) or those who used the church (the money-changers) while truly regarding the things of God with contempt, ignoring God's will and most especially His Son. Maybe for some reason you feel the Pope fits that description. Many sincere Christians (including this non-Catholic, conservative Evangelical) would disagree, but the criticism you offered seems driven by some anger unrelated to the actual situation presented. The Pope and the Catholic Church regularly speak and act on behalf of persecuted Christians. Surely, a reference to a papal visit to prisoners in relation to those who are imprisoned for their faith, by a speaker focused on those Christians, is no grievous insult to the persecuted church.
If there is a greater criticism you have to offer regarding the Pope or the speaker quoted, perhaps another venue would be more appropriate, given your concern for keeping the focus on persecuted Christians. If not, then your comment simply seems ill-tempered.
I've certainly made the mistake at times myself, getting worked up about some political or more often moral issue and then getting sidelined by something not on point, or making a statement that I later realized was in error or overstated. It doesn't serve the larger cause.
And I'm frequently guilty of offering snark where it isn't necessarily due, or forgetting that the people I'm arguing with might have something more than just a difference of opinion or a mistaken viewpoint going on in their lives.
God frequently reminds me that the truth is not a cudgel to be wielded to suit our frustrations, and it is certainly not a foundation to support our own flimsy, unfounded, and self-serving accusations against others. The truth is supposed to set people free.
A modicum of grace then, would have been a better choice. It always is.
Merry Christmas.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThank you for reminding your readers about the plight of Asia Bibi.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusecb, THANKS! First, you actually returned to follow up on your prior comment. Further, you actually spent some time instead of just doing a "drive by" like you did last time and then congratulating yourself on your message of "grace."
Thanks as well for your awesome display of humility. Noted. Good to see I got a reaction from my "false assumptions," etc. I did it to tweak you into actually defining what you meant by "grace" -- though I explicitly pointed that out it seems you missed it. Go figure.
Nice exposition of the parable with the servant. You say "Grace is the offering of forgiveness where it is undeserved." SO TELL ME, AM I TO OFFER GRACE WHEN I AM NOT THE ONE OFFENDED? For example, if someone robs you and I tell the robber "I forgive you" am I being graceful or pompous?
Your application of the parable is faulty. The Christians in prison for their faith are the ones offended by the equation of their persecution with the just jailing of criminals for their crimes. If the Pope visits common criminals that's swell but it has nothing to do whatsoever with the persecuted. You ask me to overlook sin against others. That is a sin.
But to cite another parable, go cross the road to the other side and avoid dealing with unpleasant matters. This is the practical application of your version of "grace."
I am aware of the Pope's many empty speeches and gestures. Thanks for the reminder. Yes, I am ill-tempered. Guilty.
Playing at being holy? I'll leave you to own that as you close, by reminding me that "The truth is supposed to set people free." Free from what, dear sir? Let's try Mark 3:4 And he said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?” But they were silent. 5 And he glooked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored."
Jesus was a man of action, not talk, and he was willing to offend. What was the reaction of the talkers? Mark 3:6 "The Pharisees went out and immediately held counsel with the Herodians against him, how to destroy him."
You might have bothered to actually discuss the verse you cited. Let's take a look at John 8:31-32 where Our Lord says “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
How did the Pharisees react to Jesus discourse? Well, by verse 37 we get this: "I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet jyou seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you."
So what I get from your version of grace is what I suspected: like the Pope, forgive offenses that are not done to you and choose to be "nice" instead of holding to the truth. I refer to your closing remark, which is quite exhaustive in its application: "A modicum of grace then, would have been a better choice. It always is." Nice Gospel you got there. No payment for sin, just look the other way, walk on by. Good luck with that. Happy holidays.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI find your exegesis to be as self-serving as your characterizations of me (which you seem determined to return to).
For example, You relate the parable of the sheep and goats and the command to visit the imprisoned solely to persecuted Christians. Try visiting prisoners some time and you will learn that there are Christians in jail who have made mistakes in their lives, as well as new Christians who have repented from their sins (not to mention those who would come to Christ). Christ said ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
I seriously doubt that those imprisoned for their faith would fault the Pope for visiting brothers and sisters in Christ )(and others no doubt) who are imprisoned for *whatever reason.* Was the original comment linking that visit to the persecuted a stretch? Perhaps (I've never really suggested otherwise) but your ill-tempered response was an overreaction, particularly given the focus otherwise in the remarks was upon the persecuted.
The best I can figure is that you don't like the Pope for some reason (whether anti-papism, or some personal grievance such as the scandals of recent years, I do not know - the "many empty speeches and gestures" remark is an acknowledgment of some ignorance), and rather than address that in your original message, you have chosen instead to bomb all over the original post for a single reference to the Pope's visit and compound your mistake with a raft of assumptions, assertions that are clearly disputable, numerous straw men, and Biblical references that are not on point. I'm happy to let this and my previous posts stand and for others, not reading their own assumptions into the conversation, to decide.
The payment for sin is decided upon by God, not you, and I am always thankful for the fact that God is the judge, not flawed, raging, self-serving men who talk of love and grace and mercy in the abstract but fail to find it, even in their words.
In the Gospels, Christ frequently offered forgiveness, grace, and mercy both in word (He is after all, the living Word) and deed. The woman at the well, the adulterous woman, and countless other examples. He focused his love and mercy on those who needed deep healing and reserved his anger for those who behaved contemptibly. Grace, being the offering of undeserved forgiveness, and mercy, being the withholding of deserved punishment are the foundations of our hope. One who speaks of them is not simply being "nice" because you cannot speak of grace and mercy without inherently recognizing the judgment and punishment that would otherwise be given and richly deserved.
You can go on pretending that acknowledging Christ's love, mercy, and grace in this way is just being "nice." You can go on pretending that your overreaction and misplaced judgment are somehow only zealous attempts to promote the truth. It's just pretense, is all I'm saying. It's anger better saved for those who truly ignore the persecuted (See the post on the British Foreign Office above, for example) or better yet for the persecutions themselves.
...and FWIW, I didn't look the other way, here.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusecb, Thank you again for a detailed response. God's Word is the standard here. If it bothers you that I select texts that support what I am saying, in your words I am "self serving." Guilty as charged.
How unfair, indeed, I am to you. You mention "exegesis." This is normally contrasted with "eisegesis" -- that is, reading your own ideas in to the text. And what do you do in regard to the parable of the sheep and the goats? Do you discuss the text further, or the context? No, you repeat the same idea that you pushed the first time without any Biblical support.
Then you encourage me to visit prisons. In my original comment I noted that it's swell that the Pope visits prisons and that they are stinky places, etc. I repeatedly repeated that this is simply not the same thing as suffering imprisonment for being a Christian. Quite evidently I am wasting my time. FYI, during my military career I was required to visit prisons on approx. half a dozen equations and my church has a prison ministry. We do emphasize with prisoners that if their sentence is just that they should serve it faithfully. Repentance is the key for them. You? You equate something for which repentance would be a sin (that is, to "repent" for the "crime" of witnessing for Christ) with just imprisonment. Sorry for the digression, but you're the one who keeps on running away from the Bible to push your own ideas.
"I seriously doubt." Cool. You speak for other Christians. Like a mini-Pope, perhaps? No doubt I am "ill-tempered" to point that out. You may get the opportunity some day to correct Jesus on how un-Christlike and ill-tempered He was when confronting people. What a horrible mistake He made in His parable when He limited it to brothers.
"The best I can figure is that you don't like the Pope." Well, it helps when you ignore what I say. In my last post I said that your version of grace is "like the Pope, forgive offenses that are not done to you." If you suffer, and I forgive the criminal, do I have a right to do so? I ask this in many different ways but you ignore it completely. I ask again, are you (and the Pope, if you wish) being graceful or pompous? Let's look again at the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant in Matt 18. It is the Master who is owed the debt and who alone has the power to forgive it. But you ignore this teaching.
I also discussed texts from Mark and John but ignored those as well. Like I said in my original response, "For you the Bible is probably optional." Yep.
Further, you need to re-read my original remark. I complimented the author on mentioning the persecution. I complimented the Pope on visiting prisons ("stinky places" etc.). I said the 2 are not the same thing. So I DID "address that in your original message." I DID NOT "bomb all over the original post for a single reference to the Pope's visit."
I used one adjective, "pathetic." Wow, what a bomb. Still, I must congratulate you. In this latest response you finally used the word "repent." Well done. Until then all you did with "this and my previous posts" is advocate cheap grace. Further, you finally get it right as "undeserved forgiveness, and mercy." But you are wrong about "the withholding of deserved punishment." There was punishment. You know Who took it, right? SO you who have moved beyond merely being "nice." Again, congratulations.
Finally, regarding my "overreaction and misplaced judgment" you are right: "It's just pretense." Pretense for what, exactly? I know what I deserve, and it is eternal punishment. You congratulate yourself on not looking "the other way, here." Good. Keep it up. Confront sin, particularly in the self-righteous like me. One final helpful hint: the danger to God's people isn't from outside persecution, but always from inside. We see this in Old Testament Israel, Christ's confrontation of "the Jews" and the apostles letters (which were not written to all mankind, but to the brethren).
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusecb, I forgot to address a central allegation you make: that "You went out of your way to criticize a comment by an individual who offered a great deal of information about persecuted Christians."
In reference to Mr. Marshall's post, I said "Truly a pathetic ending to an otherwise effective summary of persecution." I honored what was honorable and criticized that which was/is not Biblical.
You cite the parable of the sheep and goats. THAT PARABLE IS SPECIFICALLY IN REFERENCE TO PERSECUTED BRETHREN (Matt 25:40, you may also wish to read Paul's discussion of visiting BROTHERS in prison). Break out your Bible and refer to Matt 25, if it's not too bothersome and re-read the actual text instead of imposing your own agenda on it.
No wonder both you find Mr. Marshall's comment to be so minor. If your wife were raped and the Pope visited the rapist and forgave him, that would evidently be "gracious" and quite similar to the Pope visiting those who were jailed on Christ's behalf. 1 Pet 2:13-20 is one of many New Testament teachings commending those who suffer for Christ, but the discourse starts by noting that those who do evil are rightly punished by the government. In Rom 13 Paul notes that the government does not bear the sword in vain. But you find the distinction between being jailed for Christ and jailed for evil to be minor: let's repeat what you said, "You went out of your way to criticize."
YES I DID. You say my reaction was "entirely out of proportion to the 'offense.'" Oh, OK.
Next time you recite The Lord's (model) Prayer you may wish to think about how we ask God to "Forgive us...as we forgive those who trespass/sin AGAINST US" (emph. obviously added).
It's understandable that the Pope is in the habit of granting indulgences. "The Church" to this day grants special indulgences for things that would otherwise be sin but they claim to have "the keys" and they can draw upon the "Treasury of Merit" built up by their "Saints" as payment. Do you personally have such power, according to your beliefs? I repeat so it is crystal clear: is it proper for you to forgive sins that are done to others? Did you make the payment, or does God owe you for the extra good you have done so you can credit to the account of someone else (e.g., the criminal)? Well, good on ya.
I'm not the one offended here by the direct distortion of God's standards. So excuse me if I do not forgive a sin that has not been done to me, personally. Still, if I were imprisoned for the faith I might point out that the Pope seems to condemn "violence" uniformly instead of praising governments for using police and military action as necessary for self-defense. The pattern is consistent, no matter who is wearing the big hat. In my lifetime all of America's wars have been condemned, even this week in Nigeria the word (admittedly filtered via the Press) is a blanket condemnation of violence instead of a call for justice to be executed against the murderers.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIn sum, I see actual crimes being grouped together with righteous Christianity, including the peaceful ("so far as it depends on you" per Rom 12:18) with murderers. So I'll close by quoting the so-called first Pope who lays out the distinctions I just made as Commands, if such matter to you:
1 Pet 2:16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor."
Someone said if you love me you will obey my commandments...
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Please don't forget Pastor Nadarkhani in Iran!!!
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