I was stuck in a stairwell for the first half-hour of the debate, and some of the questions made me wish I still was once I was in place.
And yet . . . may I express my gratitude for the liberal media anyway? You can’t help but think there were some gotcha questions there. And the field made America proud. Rick Santorum is not the caricature of him that the media insists he is. Mitt Romney has led on some of these so-called social issues and got to talk about just that. Newt Gingrich was articulate on the scandal of tolerance these days — as those who want to redefine marriage will not be satisfied until we all are forced to approve. Rick Perry expanded the religious-liberty discussion to discuss how this administration is penalizing human-trafficking victims because of its radical ideology. And the candidates made clear that their interest in these issues stemmed from a concern with freedom and who we are as a country — rather than anyone’s bedroom.
Thank you, Miss Lopez, for once against speaking on behalf of America.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuseas those who want to redefine marriage will not be satisfied until we all are forced to approve.
That is not true for all supporters of gay marriage anymore than saying all people who are against gay marriage really just don't like gay people. Can we stipulate that there are some on the anti-gay marriage side who respect gay people and others that don't, on the pro-gay marriage side there are people who respect people's religious beliefs and others who do not. Calling one side homophobes and calling the other side intolerant of other's religious beliefs is not a good way for this debate to be conducted.
Let's keep it out of the mud, Lopez.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYes, I think this is a very worthwhile distinction.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseRichard, I appreciate the tone. But here is the thing about 'forcing to approve' - obviously, that can't be done in the mind. You can't force someone to not be a racist either.
The issue is the weight of law. That is what was discussed today in the debate about the attack on Catholic charitable and medical service providers. That is where we are 'forced to approve'
When I see large numbers of the 'pro gay marriage' crowd loudly also denounce the discrimination against religious conviction as is happening within the law (and will only continue to advance) - THEN I will grant your premise over Klo's.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI think a lot of the controversy comes from strings that are attached to government funds provided to religious charities. These strings for government money I don't think are exactly the same as forcing them to approve, the government doesn't have to give them money and they are not entitled to it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that was the issue with the Catholic Adoption Agencies in Massachusetts. Whether or not tax payers in these states want to fund charities because a majority think it is wrong to discriminate against gay couples is their call.
In some respects making them pay for these charities with their tax dollars is actually the other way around, you are forcing the tax papers to approve of the charities' values.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAnd with regulations what they are, charities are forced to accept ties with the government in order to legally exist. So, it all comes back to Leviathan.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm also curious: who let Miss Lopez out of that stairwell?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGeorge and Diane's Big Fat Republican Gay Debate
And oh btw Gov. Huntsman, don't answer questions in Mandarin.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGiven the rise of Santorum and the emphasis he has put on social/moral issues, I think the questions were relevant. If Republicans think the gay issues are such winners for them, why are they afraid to talk about them in debates?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseWho was afraid to talk about them?
Did not every candidate on the stage tonight, save Ron Paul, make explicit their opposition to redefining marriage?
Does not that collective position represent the law in 44 of 50 states, plus federal law?
Have not attempts to redefine marriage been voted down every single time they've been put to a popular vote?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI'm just judging from all the punditry howling about the questions being asked. Apparently the big fat gay question is the question that dare not speak its name in a national forum. It's only important when Republican candidates are trolling for votes in social con mountaintop enclaves, I guess.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseEvery freaking debate this question has come up. And not just this election.
Instead of a debate, can someone just play tape from another one? After all, it's just the same old questions.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseNewt knocked it out of the park with that answer (as did Romney and Perry on that same subject). When Newt's at his best, as he was for the most part tonight, he's great. Unfortunately, behind Dr. Newt lurks evil Mr. Gingrich, and inevitably that latter persona inevitably comes to the fore given enough time.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYup, Newt is a great respecter of the institution of marriage, practically a poster boy. But then "do as I say not as I do" always has been his guiding star.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe problem is is that you're the one who wants the federal government to define marriage laws in all fifty states--you're not content to leave it up to the people in the states to decide for themselves (granted a lot of the pro gay marriage people aren't either, but you're no different).
Listening to Gingrich preach about the holy sacrament of marriage was pretty amusing, given how he he has treated two previous marriage cavalierly, let us say, but the worst of the bunch was, yes, Santorum, Unlike Romney and Gingrich and Hunstman he couldn't being himself to put up even a facade of empathy for gay people. That's because, it seems evident to me, out of the closet gays utterly disgust him. That;'s his right to feel that way, but that level of disdain isn't going to play well with socially moderate voters.
The moderators also needed to ask about "don't ask, don't tell," since I presume the GOP candidates are committed to restoring the policy of throwing out gays out of the military. The GOP needs to be completely honest about the extent of its anti-gay agenda. It's evidently not something incidental to the GOP, Miss Lopez.--certainly not to Santorum.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Listening to Gingrich preach about the holy sacrament of marriage was pretty amusing, given how he he has treated two previous marriage cavalierly"
I had the same reaction.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHow, exactly, does the GOP want the "federal government to define marriage laws in all fifty states?"
DOMA defines marriage at the *federal* level and protects each state from being forced to recognize an out-of-state "marriage" that contravenes its own law. It protects federalism rather than encroaches upon it.
The Federal Marriage Amendment makes use of a legitimate tool provided by the Constitution - the amendment process - and would have to be passed by 3/4 of the states in order to be ratified, not imposed by federal fiat. As such, the suggestion that it would represent the "federal government defin[ing] marriage laws in all fifty states" is patently bogus.
You're in dire need of better talking points.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseOh, please, spare me the "talking points" rhetoric. I've been posting on here a long time now and I think I've made it it abundantly clear I'm an independent thinker. Disagree with me, fine; but I assume you hold your views honestly, do me the same courtesy, if you will.
Of course the constitutional amendment process is legitimate, but it doesn't have to be used. The federal government imitates it, then it moves to the states. Yes, it requires a lot of states to vote for it (in fact so many it never would happen, just like the human life amendment), but it would still constitute an imposition on the minority states.
It's just like prohibition. A bunch of self-appointed moralists can't stand the idea that there might be a gay marriage somewhere in America--just like the anti-liquor folks went into horrified shivers over the notion that someone in Manhattan might be drinking a cocktail.
People really want to waste the government's time on this? I suspect Santorum really does.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseShould read "initiates."
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"you're not content to leave it up to the people in the states to decide for themselves"
Thanks, Senator Douglas.
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