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The Abominable Question

EEEEK! A citizen asks our president The Abominable Question:

My husband has an engineering degree with over ten years of experience, and he was laid off over three years ago and has yet to find a permanent job in his field. My question to you is: Why does the government continue to issue and extend H-1B visas when there are tons of Americans just like my husband with no job?

Obama proceeded to emit great clouds of squid ink, e.g.:

The H-1B should be reserved only for those companies who say they cannot find somebody in that particular field.

Those odd sounds you hear are of immigration attorneys all over the country slapping their thighs and rolling on the ground in uncontrollable mirth. At Cohen & Grigsby, for example, who at a 2007 seminar gave a presentation on gaming the H-1B process, and actually made a video of their presentation. You can see the video here. (Until Cohen & Grigsby catch up with whomever’s posting it this month. They’re attorneys, for crying out loud.)

Jennifer, the lady who asked The Abominable Question, also asked this one:

Why do you think the H-1B program is so popular with big corporations?

Sheesh, that beats my pair of jacks, Jennifer. I have no idea, none at all. Absolutely nothing comes to mind. No clue … Nope, can’t think of a single reason. Sorry!

New on The Corner. . .


COMMENTS   20

EXPAND  

   01/31/12 09:18

Obama told her to send him her husband's resume also. Now that has got to be first, a president who will personally find every individual a job.

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Violetta1485
   01/31/12 14:32

Actually, Reagan got some guy a job back in the '80s, after he wrote a highly-publicized letter asking him to do so. The guy later got laid off.

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   01/31/12 09:50

What a load of snark. On odd numbered days conservatives support immigration policies that attract skilled people to the US. On even numbered days the same conservatives trash Democrats for supporting the same policy.

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 SC
   01/31/12 12:52

Even a superficial look would tell you that conservatives are pretty divided on this issue with harsh language used on each sides towards the other. McCain, Jeb and GW Bush and the editors of the WSJ strongly and consistently favor legal highly-skilled immigration.

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Billy D
   01/31/12 16:33

Mr. Derbyshire has never struck me as being terribly in favor of immigration. I would have to agree with the other response to your comment that immigration is one of the more divisive topics in conservative circles.

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   01/31/12 09:57

From Mitt Romney's Believe in America campaign document:

"As president, a first step that Mitt Romney will take along these lines is to raise
the ceiling on the number of visas issued to holders of advanced degrees in math,
science, and engineering who have job offers in those fields from U.S. companies."

"As president, Mitt Romney will also work to establish a policy that staples a
green card to the diploma of every eligible student visa holder who graduates from
one of our universities with an advanced degree in math, science, or engineering.

Romney doesn't "Believe In America" He believes in Asian Imports. As if the richest country on the planet with 300 million people can't train up enough scientists and engineers.

This is a sop to Romney's Crony Capitalist pals in Silicon Valley and Wall Street who want a cheap, compliant labor force. Existing H-1B saturation has tens of thousands of native born American technologists pounding the pavement in a tanked economy. Yet Romney's solution is to suck in even more immigrants, 98% of which are nothing special and no more competent than the Americans they displace.

Moreover, both Romney and Obama call for more Americans to study science and engineering. Yet what's the incentive for an American kid to bust his or her hump in a tough academic program when they know they'll be competing for jobs against Asians who will work as indentured servants for a Green Card?

BTW, notice that the talking heads and politicians who call for almost unfettered technologist immigration conveniently have positions where they themselves won't be"insourced" out of job via the same mechanisms.

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   01/31/12 10:37

Thanks for the info! I've been looking for reasons to vote enthusiastically for Romney! Import smart hard-working people!

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 JEM
   01/31/12 15:05

Entry level engineers of Chinese and Indian origin are finding better and better salaries back home - when we hire a foreign grad in the US it is for the same rate we would pay a US native. There is little savings on direct labor costs anymore. Already top technical talent in India/China is commanding salaries on par with US ones. Like any other groups, there are good ones and not so good ones, but adding them into the labor pool only increases the talent level from which I choose. Sometimes I want an Indian or Chinese employee in order to better communicate with our locations in India and China, so a US candidate is actually not wanted.

There will always be some playing the wage game but increasingly, talent will get paid wherever it is and what ever nationality it is. We had a very nice run of being protected from the rest of the world, but those days are gone. And to the betterment of us all as US based companies are quickly demonstrating their superiority over most of their foreign competitors and are now laying down facilties in developing countries in order to service those markets, not necessarily for import back to the US.

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george baker
   01/31/12 10:35

As always and always will be.
Forty years ago I counciled laid off MS engineering students with foreign engineers in their former positions at much less than their previous salaries. Fortunately the foreigners usuualy took only a few years to become better engineers (certainly harder working ones) and demanding equal pay.
As a department head I ocaisionaly got prepared letters from immigration attornies needing only my signature to claim a foreigner solely and uniquely qualified to teach an elementary engineering course. My refusal was not appreciated or understood.

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   01/31/12 10:55

Whoever screens these comments is sensitive to liberal comments. No swearing, no threats, no false claims, no insults (out of kind), no run-on writing. Just snark for snark. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

Conservative cowards all (this is an out of kind insult).

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   01/31/12 13:29

This comment is just hilarious. I congratulate you, sir, on a beautiful critique of typical liberal commentary.

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   01/31/12 11:04

After college, a neighbor of mine moved from his little town halfway across the country to a big city to get a high-skilled tech job (the traditional way that smart kids from humble families have latched on to the middle class during the last several decades).

Jobs like that are thin on the ground in his hometown, but one opened up a few years ago and he applied. He was told he was their "second choice," their first choice being an H-1B contractor who they rebadged as an employee and even helped adjust his status to permanent.

So instead of my neighbor working near and enjoying his extended family, he keeps working 800 miles away while another guy from half a world away gets to live in and enjoy his hometown.

There are some minimum benefits that citizenship had better start conferring, and being first in line for jobs for which they are well-qualified is one that's pretty fundamental.

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   01/31/12 11:14

Forget all the seamy falsehoods about an immigrant being the only one who can do the job and the other dirty tricks for getting around our HB-1 program.

Get rid of all that and simply set a quota for HB-1 visas and then let corporations bid for the individual visas. That way we *know* how many HB-1 visas there will be, and we *know* that some corporation really does think this particular foreign employee is valuable enough to shell out 10 or 20 or 30k for.

In fact, if I had my druthers I'd probably junk all work visa categories (family reunification, HB-!, the whole kit and caboodle) and simply let people bid for it. Its the American way.

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Tom Davenport
   01/31/12 12:03

I retired from Silicon Valley a few years ago, for the last twenty years I was a headhunter. I have very mixed feelings about the H1B program.
On the positive side, if we didn't have the ability to hire foreign engineers, Si Valley would have never grown the way it did. The demand for engineers and scientists far exceeded the supply of US citizens with even close to the education or experience needed. A case in point: one of my sons graduated from a bay area university with a BS EE. He was one of only about three US citizens in his graduating class of EEs. Having looked at literally thousands of resumes of new graduate engineers I can reasonably infer that his school was not an exception. It is clear to me that the secondary education system in our country is failing to produce kids who can or want to pursue careers in science or engineering. Returning to my son's case, he dropped out of High School and joined the Army that experience got his started down a technical path. The crushing boredom of a US school system catering to the lowest common denominator does not produce people who can or will think outside the box.
The negative side of the H1B program is that by its success, it has depressed salaries (not to the degree claimed by some) and has produced a huge number of technical managers and executives not of US origin. The largest problem there is that people hire people like themselves: Indian managers hire Indian engineers. So we now have a built in prejudice against US grown engineers.
How do we get ourselves out of this mess? Yes, we have to greatly curtail the H1B program. Were I a pessimist, looking at the decimation of American industry in the last decade, I'd say we don't need engineers anyway, just keep producing marketers and bean counters. However, I choose to believe we'll get out of this funk and, once we kill Obamacare, the demands of medical technology alone can fuel an industrial recovery better than WW II did with somewhat less dire side effects. But where do the engineers and scientist come from? Companies and industries have to grow them themselves. It may require the legalization of some kind of indentured servitude to make it cost effective, but American industry has done it in the past -- I've known some very talented non-degreed engineers produced by the likes of Westinghouse and Honeywell.
Meanwhile if you are an out of work Engineer with more than 10 years of experience, stop applying for entry level (or 3-5 year exp) jobs. Stop reading 'How to write a killer resume' book. Stop surfing the internet all day every day and sending resumes for jobs you aren't an exact fit for. Instead, call everyone you know and everyone they know and cold call every potential employer you can find.

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   01/31/12 12:13

A semiconductor engineer taking three years to find a job is taking an awful long time to learn Ruby. RoR devs are making > 125K in big metro areas. Semiconductor design probably requires a different optimal set of traits than back-end web designers, but I expect they're near enough to make do.

Or PHP, or JavaScript, to pick out a couple of highly-employable languages.

If he'd rather wait three years for semiconductor work, I suppose that's up to him. But I can sympathize with any employer who'd wonder about his work ethic. And imagine the productivity gap between the last American semiconductor engineer and the first foreign one, if the latter can't work before the latter -- employers surely will.

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   01/31/12 13:43

There's also the fact that just because someone gets laid off, whether or not it has anything to do with the quality of their work (It literally could be the companies failure), often puts up the red flag of which you speak and it becomes a spiral:

Person gets laid off
Companies wonder if he's not a great employee and don't hire him
Person now unemployed 6 months
Company: "Gosh, this guy got laid off AND he hasn't found another job in 6 months, he seems okay, but I gotta wonder about his work ethic"
Person now unemployed 1 year +
Company: "Gosh, this guy got laid off AND he hasn't found another job a year, something must be wrong with him"
etc., etc., etc.

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   01/31/12 15:36

"Semiconductor design probably requires a different optimal set of traits than back-end web designers, but I expect they're near enough to make do."

Neither one of us knows this particular guy's situation. But I think you are really underestimating the difficulty in switching fields. The first hurdle in getting a job with a medium-sized or bigger company is getting past HR. And the HR person reviewing your resume has no idea what "Ruby" or "epitaxy" mean. He just knows he's supposed to find resumes that have "Ruby" in them, and he sees no reason to care about "epitaxy." So, if you're a semiconductor engineer, your resume goes in the circular file. That's the way it works.

And I think there are tons of managers who will never think twice about the comparative productivity of the foreign vs. American engineer. There are too many of these guys who just know that they have a budget to meet, and if they can free up a few thou by hiring the foreigner, that's what they'll do. That's the way it works. I've seen too much to think otherwise.

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   01/31/12 12:26

A few years back, I was in a professional organization for, well, compute geeks. They had a weekly news digest. I remember one issue where the first story was about Microsoft lobbying congress to increase the number of visas for foreign workers. Microsoft needed more Indian programmers, they said, because US colleges just weren't graduating enough computer scientists anymore. The very next article was a report on a survey regarding why undergraduates weren't going into computer science anymore. By far the number one reason was that all the CS jobs were going overseas and they just didn't want to invest all that time and money in one of the toughest degrees any college offers, only to get out and not have a job. Draw you own conclusion.

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 JimS
   01/31/12 12:33

Here would be my response to that question:
"Your husband was fired because the company decided that the value of having him was worth less than they were paying him. In many cases, these companies will bring in qualified foreign individuals who are willing to do the same work for less. These are exactly the types of people who should be here - smart, hard working, and much less likely to take advantage of the welfare system (though you could argue this, e.g. with family imports). If your husband cannot compete with these people on H1-B visas, then the company cannot compete worldwide. More successful foreign companies will take advantage of the uncompetitiveness of American companies where the workers demand too much money relative to their worth. American companies will fail, and there won't be jobs for anyone. So, instead of complaining about immigration, how about embracing an immigration system that allows in the best of the best from around the world, and makes American companies more competitive? How about American workers actually see what their skills are truly worth and not demand so much more compensation than they truly deserve? Why not have the most talented individuals in the world come here, and want to come here, rather than excluding them just to make sure some unemployable American has a job?"

Note: I will never be elected to public office.

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   01/31/12 12:40

"Whomever" is a hypercorrection.

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