A writer at the conservative Catholic website Crisis (which was known for a while as InsideCatholic) uses the recent contretemps over some of Santorum’s less judicious statements as an opportunity to discuss why separation of church and state is not just the law, but also a good idea:
Santorum must also remember that the separation of church and state is a good thing for the Catholic Church, and for people of faith in general. The concept has an honorable history within the Church. . . .
In the Protestant-dominated culture of early America, Catholics were often the champions of separation of church of state, out of self-interest if not out of principle. In 1785, Father John Carroll, soon to be chosen as the first Catholic bishop of the United States, declared that he and his co-religionists “have all smarted heretofore under the lash of an established church, and shall therefore [be] on our guard against every approach towards it.” The multiplicity of Christian sects made the doctrine a practical necessity, and many Protestants, such as James Madison, therefore also adopted the principle, whose great by-product was religious toleration.
Catholics in early America who advocated the separation of church and state and toleration were liable to be charged with religious indifferentism, or a lack of commitment to the truth of their faith. This guilt by association persists to this day. Church-state separatists are in fact viewed more dimly in our contemporary world in that they are seen as enemies of religious belief itself. I suspect that is why devout Catholics like Santorum have a knee-jerk negative reaction to the doctrine.
Social conservatives across the religious spectrum tend to downplay the concept of the separation of church and state, and many dismiss it entirely. They are fond of pointing out that the Constitution does not contain the phrase “separation of church and state,” and that the terminology about a “wall of separation” originated first in America in Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 Letter to the Danbury Baptists. Conservatives generally like to think that this proves that the Constitution contained no such idea and, consequently, the American political tradition does not.
This is a mistaken notion. Certain concepts are in the Constitution even if the phraseology we use to sum up these ideas is not. Religious Americans (of all stripes) ought to embrace the concept of church-state separation, for as John Carroll understood, it works to protect the church from the state, and in keeping the church out of state affairs, it keeps the church from being corrupted.
Santorum seems to understand half of this equation, as he is rightly sounding the alarm about the federal government’s Health and Human Service mandate . . .
The writer is Dr. Stephen M. Klugewicz, and I find his words persuasive. (He also has interesting things to say about how Santorum got JFK partly right and partly wrong. You can read his whole article here.) And I must point out that he is not exactly an outlier: Contrary to the stereotypes cherished by anti-religion propagandists, people of strong religious faith are often the stoutest defenders of church-state separation. One of the most eloquent defenses of the concept I’ve ever heard came from a Baptist preacher at a fundamentalist church I used to attend occasionally — precisely the kind of church the anti-religious like to sneer at as “Talibaptist.”
A true separation of Church and state would be the end of the Welfare state. It is traditionally the purvue of religion to address the social welfare of the community. Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked, housing the homeless.
The challenge to Churches with respect to the separation of church is state is how to react when the State intrudes in those areas traditionally the responsibility of Churches.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI agree. We must protect the Church from the State and the worshipers of man.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe problem with much of the discussion on this issue is a kind of sloppiness. There's a good reason "separation of church and state" didn't make the Constitutional cut - it's far too vague and open to interpretation. The founders were wise enough to phrase religious rights in terms of what the federal government could not do (specifically Congress) as opposed to what citizens could do.
A good example is found in Thomas Jefferson's practice of attending church ...at the US Capitol, during his VP term and his Presidency. The author of the phrase "a wall of separation" had a very different idea of what that meant than the Supreme Court revisionists of the 20th Century.
Separation of church and state is used as a sledgehammer to restrict religion in public life. I suspect Santorum is responding to that as much as anything. We would do well to set aside the phrase and spend our time engaged in a more profitable discussion of what the appropriate Constitutional relationship between church and state is.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThomas Jefferson was NOT the author of the phrase "wall of separation". In his letter to the Danbury Baptists, Jefferson echoed Roger Williams, founder of the colony of Providence Plantation, and the first Baptist Church on American soil (the First Baptist Church of Providence).
Here's Roger William's actual quote, the source of Jefferson "wall of separation" concept, from "Mr. Cotton's Letter Lately Printed, Examined and Answered,", in1644:
"The church of the Jews under the Old Testament in the type, and the church of the Christians under the New Testament in the anti-type, were both separate from the world; and when they opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broken down the wall...therefore if He will ever please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world."
Jefferson's "Letter to the Danbury Baptists" was written in 1802.
James Madison himself, understood that the Constitution guarded the notion of separation between Church and State, as we see in the ideas set forth in his undated essay "Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments":
"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history."
The idea of this "wall of separation" was very prevalent at the time of the drafting of the Constitution.
Jefferson's most succinct explanation on why he believed, as other Founders believed, that there should indeed be a wall of separation between Church, and State, is to be found in the text of his "Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom", enacted into law by the Virginia General Assembly in 1786. In it, Jefferson puts forth the idea that too close a proximity between religion and government would tend to corrupt both, and that the end result would be the destruction of all religious liberty.
:
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI appreciate the correction on the specific origin of the phrase. I should have at least remembered the use of the phrase in the correspondence. I respectfully amend my earlier comment to "the presumed author" for clarification (as the error is a common one).
That said, and your elaboration on the use of the concept by Madison, it still remains that the Founders clearly had a different vision of what such a wall meant, based on their own historical practices. I suspect the modern interpretation would surprise them greatly, and it is precisely because the concept of a "wall of separation" is open to such interpretation. The Amendment is much clearer, and accomplishes an ends much closer to the confluence of the writing and the practice of the Founders.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThat they would be dumbfounded by the modern interpretation is a given.
I wholeheartedly agree with Jefferson's suggestion that close proximity between religion and politics tends to corrupt both, as it tends to generate politicians who run for office on their religiosity (whether such religiosity exists or not), and turns pulpits into stumps, leaving one to wonder whether your minister does God's work, or his Party's.
The First separates government from the actions of the people, and by the same token, from government impositions on the people's religious beliefs.
I am quite comfortable with the Founder's idea of maintaining a wall of separation, as I am opposed to disallowing that valedictorian from delivering the speech.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseVery unsatisfied with the original post and even some of the responses.
We often forget the language was a sign of the times - all the religious restriction type phrases within the constitution were a direct result of the church of england and its head - the english monarch. That is the basis for no religious tests for office and the freedom of religion language - there could not be a church of the USA. State organized churches were not illegal under the constitution and in fact existed in the early years of the republic. Eventually most state constitutions eliminated their right to exist as well, although I wouldn't guarentee there isn't some place where they could exist. But on that basis alone every federal intrusion into the schools on religious matters is infact in direct conflict with the constitution as written and as understood. Since the school is not a part of the federal govt - it is governed by other chartres.
Frustrates me no end - the author misses everything. Doesn't anyone read history anymore?
And by the way - I am glad govts don't have organized churches and state support of religion as occurs in the mainland of Europe. The state has taken over religion - and no one hardly practices it. Govt kills just about everything it touches.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"In it, Jefferson puts forth the idea that too close a proximity between religion and government would tend to corrupt both, and that the end result would be the destruction of all religious liberty."
Well, Jefferson couldn't be more wrong, could he? After all, we have about a chasm worth of separation between the church and state now, and religious freedom is very well near the precipice.
That being said, even though the Framers made statements regarding the separation of church and state, it is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution in any instance. Indeed, as someone else stated, "separation of church and state" is a vacuous statement to begin with. What is the church and what is the state? Should church be loosely meant to mean Christianity, as there was hardly any other religions during that period, or a specific sect of Christianity? Does state mean all levels of government, or just the federal level?
When we start seeing things in the Constitution, it start to become malleable to the point of meaninglessness. If the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, then it should be ironclad. Too bad it isn't, unlike our more foolish ventures, Social Security and Medicare.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse"Separation of church and state is used as a sledgehammer to restrict religion in public life."
Yes, I think this is right. Irrespective of what Jefferson and Madison thought about the concept of a "wall of separation, I think both men would be dumbstruck if they knew a valedictorian could not give an address at her graduation ceremony that expressed her belief that faith was instrumental in her academic success. Quite simply, that young woman cannot utter the words, "Thank you God". But in point of fact, that is exactly where many public schools are today when they (the school administration) apply the so-called separation of church and state.
The shield that Madison and Jefferson and others fashioned out of law to protect the rights of the people has been turned into a cudgel to beat the faithful that originally needed protection. Like so many things in America that were created with the best of intentions, the wall today is nothing more and nothing less than a tool of oppression.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIIRC, the phrase "wall of separation" originates not with Jefferson, but with Justice Hugo Black, a klansman who despised Catholics and used the phrase to justify his decision in Everson v. Board of Education to deny Catholic schoolchildren access to reimbursement for the expense of taking buses to school.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseRead the letter to (I believe) Dansbury Baptist, which was written by Jefferson. It contains the phrase wall of seperation.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSo much depends on how one defines the meaning of the phrase "separation of church and state." The founders believed in the supremacy of God as the author of rights but they rejected the model of an offical denomination endorsed by the King as head of both church and state in England. For 200 years most Americans accepted the idea of no endorsement of any denomination and tolerance for all denominations. But if we lose that idea that God is supreme over the government and that all citizens have rights granted by God and not by the government, then the republic is in fatal trouble. I don't claim that everyone must be a believer to make our system work but if the state becomes a surrogate for God and secular humanism becomes the official state religion with self-appointed elites as he clergy, then all our inalienable rights will vanish because the state can take them away. Santorum has not made this case in an articulate manner but he is still right that the string of federal court decisions have had a chilling effect on even the discussion of faith and a Supreme Being in the public square. It is no wonder that belivers think faith is under attack from secular government because it is under attack by every court case that obtusely confuses a recognition of God with an establishment of religion. They are not the same thing and never were when intellectually honest judges wore the robes.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseSeparation of church and state is usually just code for a naked public square in modern usage -- a one-way barrier that allows the state to do what it will, while de-legitimizing any response grounded in religious belief. People of faith do their cause no favors defending this concept.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI just can't agree on this.
First "separation of church and state" is not "the law". The actual law is, no established federal religion, no interfering with people exercising their beliefs. That's not really a "wall of separation".
Many states had official religions at the founding and it didn't cause a constitutional crisis. One of the reactions of Catholics to their sometime prosecution was to have Maryland as a refuge - with Catholicism the official state religion as kind of an Israel for Catholics (that's a stretch, yeah, but close enough considering how different things are today).
Building on cb_10's comments above me, the phrase is actually a trick. The federal government expands and expands to control more of society and public life - then walls it off by reciting this doctrine. Government takes over education - no prayer in the schools (unless you're an officially state-sanctioned religion like Islam). Government takes over health care - sorry, we can't have that religion involved in our state enterprises.
Those who support this "wall" on the grounds that it supports religion are probably thinking of it more like a "good neighbors make good fences" policy - which is not the plan. How can that work when your neighbor moves his fence onto your property a foot at a time over the course of years? Pretty soon your space to practice religion, like smoking, is limited to designated areas at designated times, lest it damage those who might get too close.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGranted that often the most fervent advocates of the wise separation are to be found among the most religiously fervent.
Not suggesting that there was intention to hide the ball, but I think it is worthwhile to provide just a few words more from the quoted article at the point where Mike broke off:
Santorum seems to understand half of this equation, as he is rightly sounding the alarm about the federal government’s Health and Human Service mandate, requiring Catholic organizations to provide contraceptive coverage in their employee health plans. But he often seems too eager to use the government to promote religious ends.
That last sentence gets right to the problem, n'est-ce pas?
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThe only example provided of a "religious end" was the promotion of abstinence to young people, which doesn't seem to violate the 1st Amendment.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt's fine to refer to separation of church and state in the vernacular, and it is certainly in the American tradition to avoid religious litmus tests for political office or any other public function. It is simply misleading, however, to claim that the first amendment was intended to do anything other than prevent the establishment of a specific state religion or to prevent the government from interfering in the free expression of religion within acceptable societal and legal grounds (no sacrifice of virgins allowed). Any argument to the contrary is as ephemeral and unsupportable as the "right to privacy" Justice Brennan extracted from his alimentary canal.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI am not a Santorum supporter, although I certainly prefer him to Romney. Nor am I particularly religious myself. I'm at best a back-sliding Protestant and haven't attended a church for anything other than a wedding or a funeral in three decades. But having said all that, I have heard Santorum say nothing over the course of his entire public career that would lead me to believe he would seek to impose any specific religion upon the country as a whole, or do anything other than defend the free expression of religion in the public square; where it has been under consistent assault.
As for the Kennedy speech, it would have been one thing for Kennedy to say that as President he would not seek either permission or blessing from the Pope for any public policy initiative and would in no other way give the Vatican any veto or greenlight over public policy. What he said instead was that he would not allow his Catholicism to inform his public decision-making in any way. That was a morally vacuous statement, since it relied on the premise that the beliefs which guide your moral and ethical compass should not be consulted at all. It was also a statement which William F. Buckley, Jr. deplored as much as Santorum, for much the same reasons.
Judaism and Christianity have been the most civilizing, enlightening influences in the modern world. The 10 Commandments are echoed throughout our legal system -- both criminal and civil -- and the belief that a divine spark animates each individual is the greatest argument and the most powerful weapon against tyranny and the collective. The fact that we are even debating whether religion has a place in the public square is a sad commentary on how far America – and the conservative movement -- has drifted from its original moorings.
Lesser argument for separation: minimize religious corruption of politics,
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abusemain argument for separation: minimize political corruption of religion,
and I say that as an atheist.
Once again Mr. Potemra strives to give a Christian patina to the Establishment. His less than subtle jabs at Santorum and for Romney remind one of this, Matthew 19:24.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseYes, every true believer should defend the general concept of separation of church and state, but, as stated above, the devil (so to speak) is in the details. SCS is now used much more as a sword to attack Judeo-Christian thought and its adherents than a shield to protect the church from the corrupting influence of the state.
Just as the Bill of Rights forbids Congress from ESTABLISHING religion, the Constitution requires Congress to ESTABLISH post offices. Question: Could Congress have fufilled its duty in the latter merely by obscurely intimating that mail might actually exist and that post offices could potentially have positive societal benefits? Or did establish mean build, fund, hire employee,s and set the price of stamps? Words have meaning.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse