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 ast
night I had the pleasure of consulting with an obscure ex-general.
Now retired (under somewhat dubious circumstances), he is currently
hard at work on his first book — a rambling and rather academic
account of a long-forgotten war. Although Lt. Gen. Thucydides is
in poor health, near 70, and desperate to finish his work, he agreed
to take some time out to talk for a few minutes about his views
on the current conflict. His tone was formal, almost grim —
yet also philosophical.
Question:
Why is it those crowds in the Muslim world rush into
the streets to promise us death, and yet now the same firebrands
have suddenly retreated into the shadows on the news of
our power and mercy?
Thucydides:
Hope and greed, the one leading and the other following, the one
conceiving the attempt, the other suggesting the facility of succeeding,
cause the widest ruin. [3.45]. Their judgment was based more upon
blind wishing than upon any sound prevision. For it is a habit of
mankind to entrust to careless hope what they long for, and to use
arbitrary reason to thrust aside what they do not fancy. [4.108]
Question:
So, we shouldn't take all that shouting too seriously? Is that what
you're saying — that it is based on false dreams and empty
hope, not real power?
Thucydides:
Hope is danger's comforter and it may be indulged by those who have
abundant resources — if not without loss, at all events without
ruin. But its nature is to be extravagant: those who go so far as
to put their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only
when they are ruined. [5.103]
Question:
And do you think that human unpredictability which you describe
also explains the fickleness here at home, when critics, Left and
Right, damned our initial bombing efforts — and yet now are
eager to praise our sudden victories?
Thucydides:
One must support the national resolve even in the case of reverse,
or to forfeit all credit for their wisdom in the event of success.
For sometimes the course of things is as arbitrary as the plans
of men; this is why we usually blame chance for whatever does not
happen as we expected. [1.140]
Question:
OK, but many say that we Americans are now too eager to go to war.
Don't pacifists have a point that we are the moral equivalent of
our enemies when we retaliate with force?
Thucydides:
For those, of course, who have a free choice in the matter and whose
fortunes are not at stake, war is the greatest of follies. But if
the only choice is between submission with loss of independence,
and danger with the hope of preserving that independence —
in such a case it is he who will not accept the risk that deserves
the blame, not he who will. [2.62]
Question:
So we are going to be in a real war?
Thucydides:
It must be thoroughly understood that war is a necessity, and that
the more readily we accept it, the less will be the ardor of our
opponents. [1.144]
Question:
But, General, you must concede that after Vietnam and now the disaster
in New York, there is a growing fear that we might not prevail,
but instead provoke even greater terror. The Taliban sounded pretty
dangerous, after all, and there's still Iraq and all the rest.
Thucydides:
One must confront enemies not merely with spirit but with disdain.
Confidence — indeed a blissful ignorance — can reside
even in a coward's breast, but disdain is the privilege of those
who, like us, have been assured by reflection of their superiority
to their adversary. Where the chances of war are the same, knowledge
fortifies courage by the contempt that is its consequence. Its trust
is placed not in hope, which is the prop of the desperate, but in
judgment grounded upon existing resources, whose anticipations are
more to be depended upon. [2.63]
Question:
I guess what you're saying, General, is that Americans should remember
that B-52s and the Rangers have a better track record than the Taliban?
On another matter — why do you think that bin Laden and his
terrorists were so ignorant of American society, at least in the
sense that they could repeatedly get away with killing Americans,
win prestige, and gain concessions — without eventually incurring
the destructive wrath of the United States?
Thucydides:
Their own prosperity could not dissuade them from affronting danger;
but blindly confident in the future, and full of hopes beyond their
power though not beyond their ambition, they declared war and made
their decision to prefer might to right. Their attacks were determined
not by provocation but by the moment which seemed propitious. [3.39]
Question:
The hijackers were relatively educated and affluent, as was bin
Laden himself. So their desire for power doesn't seem to arise out
of economic exploitation, colonialism, or real need, does it?
Thucydides:
Fear, was the principal motive, though honor and self-interest afterwards
came in. [1.75]
Question:
So bin Laden and his associates were nothing new, but old-fashioned
bullies who mocked our restraint? Let me ask you for a minute to
just imagine — in a moment of candor — what the terrorists
and the Taliban would have said of us before September 11.
Thucydides:
"You are alone inactive, and defend yourselves not by doing
anything but by looking as if you would do something; you alone
wait till the power of an enemy is becoming twice its original size,
instead of crushing it in its infancy." [1.69]
Question:
Are you saying that they hit us because they got away with it in
the past and had hopes for further success?
Thucydides:
Fortune helps delusion, and by the unexpected aid that she sometimes
lends, tempts men to venture with inferior means. [3.45]
Question:
General — come now, do you really believe that we invited attack
through the appearance of timidity, and only strong countermeasures
will end the threat?
Thucydides:
Human nature is surely made arrogant by consideration, as it is
awed by firmness. Let them now be punished as their crime requires.
[3.39].
Question:
No other way out of this mess, then?
Thucydides:
If anyone sees a safe course, it is high time for him to change
his mind. The side that is once attacked, whose own country is in
danger, can scarcely discuss what is prudent with the same calmness
of men who are in full enjoyment of what they have got, and are
thinking of attacking an adversary in order to get more. [4.92]
Question:
So do we go on to Iraq as well?
Thucydides:
Those who are tempted by pride of strength to attack their neighbors
usually march confidently against those who keep still and only
defend themselves in their own country. But they think twice before
they grapple with those who meet them outside the frontier and strike
the first blow if opportunity offers. [4.92]
Question:
That's pretty clear-cut. Let's turn again to matters here at home.
I was struck especially by the bravery of the doomed passengers
who rushed the hijackers, and also the firemen who went into the
flaming buildings to rescue the trapped. Was their heroism all that
remarkable? And if it was, why so?
Thucydides:
None of these allowed either wealth with its prospect of future
enjoyment to unnerve his spirit, or poverty with its hope of a day
of freedom and riches to tempt him to shrink to danger. No, holding
that vengeance upon their enemies was more to be desired than personal
blessings, and reckoning this to be the most glorious of hazards,
they joyfully determined to take the risk. [2.42]
Question:
Go on, I'm enjoying your rather quaint idealism.
Thucydides:
Well, choosing to die resisting rather than to live submitting,
they fled only from dishonor, but met danger face to face and after
one brief moment, while at the summit of their fortune, escaped
not from their fear, but from their glory. [2.42]
Question:
I guess you think their courage was somewhat different from the
much-ballyhooed determination of their suicidal killers, who piloted
the jets into the towers?
Thucydides:
It is not the miserable that would most justly be unsparing of their
lives; these have nothing to hope for: it is rather they to whom
continued life may bring reverses as yet unknown, and to whom a
fall, if it came, would be most tremendous in its consequences.
And surely, to a man of spirit, the degradation of cowardice must
be immeasurably more grievous than the unfelt death that strikes
him in the midst of his strength and patriotism! [2.43]
Question:
Fiery words, General — I'd hope you would have tenure before
saying that on a campus these days. Let's raise the issue of domestic
terrorism for a minute. I've heard that some Americans are resolved
to live for the day — given the uncertainty of the present,
the sudden deaths of thousands, and promises of more deaths to come.
And the anthrax scare certainly has panicked millions, especially
in the first days of the news of the disease. Any remarks about
what actually went on during that initial fright?
Thucydides:
Men coolly ventured on what they had formerly done in a corner and
not just as they pleased, seeing the rapid transitions produced
by persons in prosperity suddenly dying. So they resolved to spend
quickly and enjoy themselves, regarding their lives and riches as
alike things of a day. [2.53]
Question:
So that sort of panic is understandable?
Thucydides:
Before what is sudden, unexpected, and least within calculation
the spirit quails. And putting all else aside, the disease has certainly
been an emergency of this kind. But born as you are, citizens of
a great state, and brought up, as you have been, with habits equal
to your birth, you should be ready to face the greatest disasters
and still to keep unimpaired the luster of your name. [2.61]
Question:
I hope so, at least. Let's go on to some brighter news. So far our
leaders have been beacons of democratic resolve — particularly
Mr. Rumsfeld. Looking back, can you shed any light on the secretary's
formula for success with the press, or for that matter with the
American people in general?
Thucydides:
By his rank, ability, and known integrity, he was enabled to exercise
an independent control over the multitude of them — in short,
to lead them instead of being led by them. Since he never sought
power by improper means, he was never compelled to flatter them,
but, on the contrary, enjoyed so high a reputation that he could
afford to anger them by contradiction. When he saw them unseasonably
and insolently elated, he would with a word reduce them to alarm.
On the other hand, if they fell victims to a panic, he could at
once restore them to confidence. [2.65]
Question:
High praise, indeed. Well, going beyond Mr. Rumsfeld, do you think
in this age of cultural relativism, there is anything at all innate
within American culture that gives us advantages over the enemy?
Surely our institutions are different from those of our adversaries?
What is it exactly that makes us strong?
Thucydides:
We cultivate refinement without extravagance and knowledge without
effeminacy. Wealth we employ more for use than show, and place the
real disgrace of poverty not in owning to the fact but in declining
to struggle against it. Our public men have, besides politics, their
private affairs to attend to, and our ordinary citizens, though
occupied with the pursuits of industry, are still fair judges of
public matters. Unlike any other nation, we regard him who takes
no part in these duties not as unambitious but as useless. And so
we are able to judge if we cannot originate, and instead of looking
on discussion as a stumbling block in the way of action, we think
it an indispensable preliminary to any wise action at all. [2.40]
Question:
I'm sure the U.S. Senate would agree. One last time, let's return
again to the war. Afghanistan in general, the last three decades,
seems an especially dangerous place, where almost anyone at anytime
will kill at will. And why have these tribes invited in so many
terrorists?
Thucydides:
In peace, there would have been neither the pretext nor the wish
for such an invitation. But in war with an alliance always at the
command of either faction for the hurt of their adversaries and
their own corresponding advantage, opportunities for bringing in
foreigners are never wanting. [3.82]
Question:
You seem to be suggesting that we can expect further random killings
over there? We've heard awful stories of torture, executions, and
mutilations. Are there more to come?
Thucydides:
In peace and prosperity states and individuals have better sentiments,
because they do not find themselves suddenly confronted with imperious
necessities; but war takes away the easy supply of daily wants,
and so proves a rough master that brings most men's characters to
a level with their fortunes. [3.82]
Question:
If you're right, won't it be hard to bring back law and order over
there? I mean, it looks like a continual cycle of tribal tit-for-tat.
Thucydides:
Men too often take upon themselves in the prosecution of their revenge
to set the example of doing away with those general laws to which
all alike can look for salvation in adversity, instead of allowing
them to subsist against the day of danger when their aid may be
required. [.3. 84]
Question:
Any chance of surrenders or private deals?
Thucydides:
From a mob like that you need not look for either unanimity in counsel
or concert in action. But they will probably one by one come in
as they get a fair offer, especially if they are torn by civil strife.
[6.17]
Question:
And should we be pretty tough with those who hold out, even those
who weren't directly connected to 9/11?
Thucydides:
Make up your minds to give them like for like; and do not let the
victims who escaped the plot feel less our injury than the conspirators
who hatched it. But reflect what they would have done if victorious
over you, especially as they were the aggressors. It is they who
wrong their neighbor without a cause, that pursue their victim to
the death, on account of the danger which they foresee in letting
their enemy survive. [3.40]
Question:
Thank you for your candid, if occasionally brutal, assessments.
I know it's getting late, but one last, rather personal question
— do you really think any of your ideas will ever have relevance
beyond that rather esoteric war between Athens and Sparta? I mean,
aren't you worried that today's Americans will find all this far
too dry? After all you're competing in a relatively small market,
with the likes of Danielle Steele.
Thucydides:
The absence of romance in my history will, I fear, detract somewhat
from its interest, but…
Question:
Gotcha. Sorry, I interrupted you — please finish…
Thucydides:
But… if it is judged useful by those inquirers who desire an
exact knowledge of the past as an aid to the interpretation of the
future, which in the course of human things must resemble if it
does not reflect it, I'll be content. In short, I have written my
work, not as any essay which is to win the applause of the moment,
but as a possession for all time. [1.22]
Thank you,
General, and good night.
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