sabel Lyman was a Buchanan delegate to the 1992 Republican national convention from Massachusetts and ran his western Massachusetts campaign in 1996. This year, she was a Buchanan delegate from Oklahoma to the Reform party convention.

Lopez: What was the atmosphere like this weekend?

Lyman: It was what a convention should be. There were no professional politicians, no lobbyists, no foreign money. It was a populist event. The vast majority of the 400-some delegates were the old Buchanan Brigades.

Lopez: Was it your impression that you and your fellow delegates were the Reform party or were you forming a new Buchanan party?

Lyman: I think it was a little bit of both. I do think the Buchanan people would have never joined the party if they did not agree with the platform — the issues it raises about fair trade and campaign-finance reform. But certainly it did have the Buchanan flavor to it. I think that all of us Buchanan Brigaders really contributed to reinvigorating the party because of Pat.

Lopez: From your vantage point, do you see any possibility of a Reform reunification, with the Hagelin half?

Lyman: Well, we tried to bring in the New York delegation, which was Lenora Fulani's delegation. Our convention did vote to extend an olive branch to that delegation. But that delegation was all Hagelin supporters, so they turned us down. They really spent the week trashing Pat and trashing us — they called us brownshirts and they said we had done things illegally, all kinds of nonsense. So, obviously they are not on the same page as we are and they are not interested in reform. They just want politics as usual. So, at this point, if they can overcome that that would be great.

Lopez: Buchanan was very forthright in regard to his views on abortion and other social issues, something he had long ago promised to tone down for the Reform Party. What accounts for the change? Obviously you agree with what he said, but do you think it was good for the party?

Lyman: Yes, he came out of the closet again, so to speak. Yes, I think the people there loved it. It was vintage Buchanan — 1992 practically. He did everything but mention "culture wars." I guess he was set free from having to conform to the party. And I think he realized that is who he is and that is who he has always been and that is who people respond to. I think where he was most forceful was talking about pro-life issues again. And the delegates loved it. It was like they were at church — the church of St. Pat.

Lopez: What's your impression about where delegates are going from here, not knowing in what states he will be on the ballot — is there momentum?

Lyman: Everybody there was an extremely hardworking grassroots kind of person who played by the rules and did everything they could in their states to get Pat on the ballot and to get themselves elected as delegates to the convention. That kind of work, hopefully, will be seen as above board and clean by the FEC and get him the money he needs — so he can get his message out and get himself into the debates. But I don't think the people who were there are going to give up. I don't think that they are going to be deterred by any of this.

Lopez: Were most of the delegates there Reform partyites or Buchananites?

Lyman: From my delegation, at least half of us are recovering Republicans; we joined because of Pat. But we support Republicans too. We have a very good senator here in Oklahoma, Sen. Inhofe. Others in our delegation are great — Tom Coburn, for example. But people like me were validated by the Republican convention — it just seemed like such a touchy-feely, bland convention. And very few of the issues that Buchananites care about were issues there. I think people felt like their concerns were not being addressed by the party.