This is from the section of the rulebook that applies: External Link
"10.06 Determining Value Of Base Hits
The official scorer shall score a base hit as a one-base hit, two-base hit, three-base hit or home run when no error or putout results, as follows:
(a) Subject to the provisions of Rules 10.06(b) and 10.06(c), it is a one-base hit if the batter stops at first base; it is a two-base hit if the batter stops at second base; it a three-base hit if the batter stops at third base; and it is a home run if the batter touches all bases and scores."
It was officially scored a single, with the runner advancing to third on a fielder's choice because he stopped at first - he had no intent of going to 2B until the play was over - not dead ball over, but "over" enough.
Although, I don't like the application of "fielder's choice" because the IFs didn't chose anything but to do nothing, which Geddy Lee tells us is still a choice, nonetheless, there should be a scorers' option like "Way To Go, Moron" or "Sleeping Beauty" or something.
FIELDER'S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner. The term is also used by scorers (a) to account for the advance of the batter-runner who takes one or more extra bases when the fielder who handles his safe hit attempts to put out a preceding runner; (b) to account for the advance of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out another runner; and (c) to account for the advance of a runner made solely because of the defensive teams indifference (undefended steal).
Interesting - based on the definition, "Fielder's Choice" doesn't seem to fit.
(g) The official scorer shall not score a stolen base when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to the runners advance. The official scorer shall score such a play as a fielder's choice."
My gripe is that this wasn't typical indifference, it was bush league laziness, but you can't score mental errors. I would have scored it 1B, SB, SB.
It wasn't so much as laziness as it was one grounder to short in several that put the SS so deep in the hole that it royally screwed up the rotation of the infielders covering the open bases.
The 3rd baseman is not normally going to have to cover second on that play, but the SS was so far in the hole, he should have - obviously. After he realized it, too late to get there in time, and after the SS tried to run to second to cover the play, no one was left covering 3rd.
Of course it's laziness. IFs shift and rotate, grounders go into the hole every single game, etc. - how come runners don't take two bases during those situations all the time?
In 1985, or so, Vince Coleman stole third and home on the same play. It was at Wrigley, and the Cardinals did a double steal with Coleman on second and Willie McGee(?)on first. The Cubs' catcher threw to second to try to get McGee. Coleman slid into third, popped up, looked around and took off, beating the throw.
I guess this is the flip side of the times when runners on first assume the first baseman has thrown the ball back to the pitcher, step off the base into the base path and get tagged out. I agree, lazy play, but it does make the game more interesting, if only that's it is different from the usual progression.
In my view, it was a triple. Just as it would be a triple if a ball hit in the gap was retrieved by the right fielder and then thrown to home plate, the runner then advancing from second base to third base. Just as it is a double when a grounder hit to the left fielder is lazily approached by the left fielder, and the batter adroitly takes advantage of the left fielder's lethargy by speeding to second base ahead of the now hurried-up throw (stretching a single into a double).
The play was never halted. It was ongoing, with the runner taking advantage of the defensive's slow execution.
How do you not score it a triple? It wasn't elegant? The defenders were busy fielder's-choice picking their noses like in T-Ball? It was lousy defense and great heads up running all in the same play. No time was called, the play was live. LOL. Great stuff.
This can't be defensive indifference because the defense was scrambling trying to recover and stop the runner advancing. None of the other fielder's choice options apply. You can't get credit for a steal when a batted ball is still in play. It's a triple.
I am pretty sure that is not a triple.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseAgreed. Not sure how it was scored (2 SBs?), but definitely not a triple.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThis is from the section of the rulebook that applies:
External Link
"10.06 Determining Value Of Base Hits
The official scorer shall score a base hit as a one-base hit, two-base hit, three-base hit or home run when no error or putout results, as follows:
(a) Subject to the provisions of Rules 10.06(b) and 10.06(c), it is a one-base hit if the batter stops at first base; it is a two-base hit if the batter stops at second base; it a three-base hit if the batter stops at third base; and it is a home run if the batter touches all bases and scores."
It was officially scored a single, with the runner advancing to third on a fielder's choice because he stopped at first - he had no intent of going to 2B until the play was over - not dead ball over, but "over" enough.
Although, I don't like the application of "fielder's choice" because the IFs didn't chose anything but to do nothing, which Geddy Lee tells us is still a choice, nonetheless, there should be a scorers' option like "Way To Go, Moron" or "Sleeping Beauty" or something.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseFIELDER'S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner. The term is also used by scorers (a) to account for the advance of the batter-runner who takes one or more extra bases when the fielder who handles his safe hit attempts to put out a preceding runner; (b) to account for the advance of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out another runner; and (c) to account for the advance of a runner made solely because of the defensive teams indifference (undefended steal).
Interesting - based on the definition, "Fielder's Choice" doesn't seem to fit.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI agree but here's why the scorer did it:
"10.07 Stolen Bases And Caught Stealing
(g) The official scorer shall not score a stolen base when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to the runners advance. The official scorer shall score such a play as a fielder's choice."
My gripe is that this wasn't typical indifference, it was bush league laziness, but you can't score mental errors. I would have scored it 1B, SB, SB.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIt wasn't so much as laziness as it was one grounder to short in several that put the SS so deep in the hole that it royally screwed up the rotation of the infielders covering the open bases.
The 3rd baseman is not normally going to have to cover second on that play, but the SS was so far in the hole, he should have - obviously. After he realized it, too late to get there in time, and after the SS tried to run to second to cover the play, no one was left covering 3rd.
DOH!
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseOf course it's laziness. IFs shift and rotate, grounders go into the hole every single game, etc. - how come runners don't take two bases during those situations all the time?
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse(c) fits pretty well.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseUm. No. The rule said (b) AND (c). Event(b) had to occur also, it did not.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIn 1985, or so, Vince Coleman stole third and home on the same play. It was at Wrigley, and the Cardinals did a double steal with Coleman on second and Willie McGee(?)on first. The Cubs' catcher threw to second to try to get McGee. Coleman slid into third, popped up, looked around and took off, beating the throw.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseGood parsing of the rules. So it's a single with one or two fielders' choices?
Beyond the scoring, this play is being shown in every single clubhouse tonight, tomorrow and after that. Stupid.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseI guess this is the flip side of the times when runners on first assume the first baseman has thrown the ball back to the pitcher, step off the base into the base path and get tagged out. I agree, lazy play, but it does make the game more interesting, if only that's it is different from the usual progression.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseIn my view, it was a triple. Just as it would be a triple if a ball hit in the gap was retrieved by the right fielder and then thrown to home plate, the runner then advancing from second base to third base. Just as it is a double when a grounder hit to the left fielder is lazily approached by the left fielder, and the batter adroitly takes advantage of the left fielder's lethargy by speeding to second base ahead of the now hurried-up throw (stretching a single into a double).
The play was never halted. It was ongoing, with the runner taking advantage of the defensive's slow execution.
I'm calling it a 'slow motion triple'.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseUhhh, not going to get into the lawyering here.
Great hustle. Should be sent to every high school and college baseball player in the nation.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseHow do you not score it a triple? It wasn't elegant? The defenders were busy fielder's-choice picking their noses like in T-Ball? It was lousy defense and great heads up running all in the same play. No time was called, the play was live. LOL. Great stuff.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseUntil there is such a thing as a team error, it's a triple in my book.
Reply to this commentLinkReport AbuseThis can't be defensive indifference because the defense was scrambling trying to recover and stop the runner advancing. None of the other fielder's choice options apply. You can't get credit for a steal when a batted ball is still in play. It's a triple.
Reply to this commentLinkReport Abuse