‘We try to control the Holy Spirit (by trying to live according to our plans, not God’s) and forget that the Spirit will blow where the Spirit wills (John 3:8).”
What does it mean to follow the Holy Spirit? Why would we ever welcome it blowing where it wills?
Fr. Dave Pivonka is author of the new book Breath of God: Living a Life Led by the Holy Spirit. Director of Franciscan Pathways and has three decades of experience as a spiritual director, retreat leader, and formation director. He has launched a video series on the Holy Spirit, too, here.
“I often pray, ‘Lord, let me see things the way you do,’” he writes in the book. We talk more about the book and the Holy Spirit. — KJL
Kathryn Jean Lopez: Why do you believe there is an “ocean of untapped grace in the people of God, and if that grace is called forth, grace flows abundantly”?
Fr. Dave Pivonka, T.O.R.: Well, basically because I believe God wants to bless his people with his grace and presence. I have experienced the Lord’s blessing when his people ask for God’s Holy Spirit. The Scripture tells us that God does not ration his Holy Spirit (John 3:34) and God desires to share his Spirit with us.
Lopez: Why should every Christian be “living a life led by the Holy Spirit” as the subtitle of your book puts it?
Fr. Pivonka: Because it is not possible for us to follow Jesus and be faithful without the Holy Spirit.
Lopez: What does that look like — a life led by the Holy Spirit?
Fr. Pivonka: It looks like a life that produces abundant fruit (Galatians 5:22-23). It is more loving, joyful, patient, kind, generous, self-controlled . . .
Lopez: “Your life will not be your own, and you won’t care.” Really? Isn’t that against every human instinct? What about freedom?
Fr. Pivonka: 2 Corinthians 3:17 says where the Spirit of God is there is freedom. My book Spiritual Freedom has much more on the topic. A relationship with the Holy Spirit provides us the freedom God desires for us. As we know, when we lose our life for Christ we will find it (Matthew 16:25).
Lopez: What do you mean when you write: “Because we have been saved by Christ, we are not slaves and should not live as if we were”?
Fr. Pivonka: St. Paul states in Romans that we have not received a spirit of slavery. I think many people feel like they are a slave to fear, anger, addiction, the past, and many other things. God wants us to be moved by His Spirit, not by a spirit of slavery.
Lopez: Your introduction quotes from Revelation: “The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come.’ Let the hearer say, ‘Come.’ Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.” What if this sounds foreign?
Fr. Pivonka: Life-giving water is an image that is used several times in the scripture, with John 4 being perhaps the most notable. Many people speak of their spiritual life as dry, and life-giving water would be welcomed.
Lopez: You contend that “the Spirit is generous.” What if that sounds remote and churchy and not my practical experience?
Fr. Pivonka: That may in fact be the case with many people, but I believe that God blesses us continually and often times we don’t recognize it. I think part of the struggle is that we are not reflective enough and don’t see how God continually blesses us and wants to be present to us. If we were to be more prayerful and ask God to show us the many ways that he is generous to us (his love, his mercy, forgiveness, health, family, friends, sacraments) we would have a more grateful spirit.
Lopez: Do we really resist the Holy Spirit? How would we even know?
Fr. Pivonka: Yes, I think some do resist the Holy Spirit. I suppose at one time or another we all do. It would be wise for us to continually ask ourselves that very question: Do I resist the Holy Spirit? My hope would be that my stance would always be allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and direct my life.
Lopez: “God desires to give more of his Spirit, and we need to become more comfortable in asking for this.” How are you so sure?
Fr. Pivonka: Because Jesus said so time and time again.
Lopez: How can we learn about life led by the Spirit from Mary?
Fr. Pivonka: The main point is that she said yes to God and she remained close to Jesus. This is a wonderful model for all Christians.
Lopez: You quote Pope Francis: “The temptation is always within us to resist the Holy Spirit, because he takes us out of our comfort zone and unsettles us . . . it is always easier and more comfortable to settle in our sedentary and unchanging ways. In truth, the Church shows her fidelity to the Holy Spirit in as much as she does not try to control or tame him.” Isn’t that a recipe for uncertainty and total chaos?
Fr. Pivonka: No, I don’t think so. God brings order, not chaos. It is the world and the evil one that bring chaos. God is ever ancient and ever new and is not static and should not be put in a cage.
Lopez: What does it mean to be charismatic? Should all of Catholicism be charismatic?
Fr. Pivonka: A simple answer is that being charismatic is being open to the Holy Spirit. So, from that perspective, yes, I do believe all should be charismatic.
Lopez: Why might that sound strange to many?
Fr. Pivonka: Not sure, but perhaps because some people have had a negative experiences with individuals involved in the Charismatic Renewal.
Lopez: What is the Charismatic Renewal and how is that different from every Christian’s need for a Pentecost way of life?
That life is hard is precisely why we need the fruit of joy. Joy in the midst of great difficulty is such a beautiful sign of hope and God’s love.
Fr. Pivonka: The Charismatic Renewal is a lay movement in the Church. Everyone needs to have a relationship with the Holy Spirit but does not necessarily have to be a part of the Charismatic movement.
Lopez: Why must Christians radiate joy? Life is hard. It can sound unrealistic to some to live joy. Even impossible.
Fr. Pivonka: Because joy is an outward sign of God’s presence. St. John 23rd says that joy is the greatest sign of God’s presence. Joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, not merely something that is manufactured. That life is hard is precisely why we need the fruit of joy. Joy in the midst of great difficulty is such a beautiful sign of hope and God’s love.
Lopez: “In the midst of our cross, our wounds, there is always hope.” How can you be so sure?
Fr. Pivonka: Because Jesus rose from the dead, the tomb is empty. The cross is not the end of the story.
Lopez: Are there a sure-fire ways to “cooperate with the Spirit in order to further the kingdom of God”?
Fr. Pivonka: A sure-fire way? Say every day say YES to the presence and power of the Holy Spirit in your life.
Lopez: What are you most grateful for about the Holy Spirit in your life?
Fr. Pivonka: Life and love.