‘Plausible Deniability’: James Biden Laughed Off Political Concerns after Meeting with Joe to Discuss Chinese Deal, Bobulinski Testifies

After meeting with Joe Biden in 2017 to discuss a joint venture with the Chinese energy firm CEFC, Tony Bobulinski was surprised that the former vice president was willing to risk his political career by attaching his name to a business deal involving millions in foreign money and executives with unknown associations.

When he asked Biden’s brother James whether he had any concerns about the political risks associated with doing business with Chinese businessmen, James laughed off the suggestion that his brother would pay a political price, assuring Bobulinski that the family had ensured Joe Biden would have “plausible deniability.”

Bobulinski described the revealing exchange in his closed-door testimony before the House Oversight and Judiciary Committees on Tuesday, according to a transcript of the testimony reviewed by National Review. 

Bobulinski vividly recalled meeting with Joe, Hunter, and James Biden at the spring 2017 Milken Institute conference, where Joe Biden gave a speech. The group gathered at the Chateau Marmont hotel before the conference to discuss forming a joint venture with CEFC under the name “SinoHawk.”

After the meeting, Bobulinski asked James Biden why his brother, who had then just left office as vice president, was willing to risk his decades-long political career by going into business with the Chinese.

“My questions were focused on political headlines. ‘How are you guys doing this? It makes no sense to me. Why would you take this risk to yourself, to your family’s brand that Hunter screams about, and all that stuff?’” Bobulinski recollected.

“And he looks at me and sort of chuckles and says, ‘Plausible deniability.’”

Bobulinski was a central figure in negotiations surrounding the “SinoHawk” joint venture proposal that was supposed to launch in 2017 with $10 million in seed capital, Bobulinski told lawmakers.

“Yes. I was — at that point I was based in Los Angeles. And as I said, we were all — me, James Gilliar, Hunter Biden, Rob Walker — we were all having this discussion of the evolution from the consulting agreement that was in place in the 2015 to ’16 timeframe to this new holding company called SinoHawk Holdings,” Bobulinski said of the May 2017 meeting. 

He proceeded to give a detailed description of his conversation with Hunter Biden before meeting his father to try to understand the level of knowledge Joe Biden had about the deal.

“And I sat with — Hunter got there, I think, a day before Joe Biden was coming to Los Angeles for the Milken Conference, and I had sat with Hunter for a couple hours on the patio of the Chateau Marmont, which was really the first time he and I spent an extensive amount of time talking about, to your question earlier, the services and what was being done,” Bobulinski said. 

He described how Hunter Biden bragged about his ability to call his father whenever he needed anything. Former Biden staffer and current CNN pundit Kate Bedingfield was identified by Bobulinski as one of the “gatekeepers” who might try to prevent Hunter from accessing his father. Bobulinski remembered being surprised that Joe Biden didn’t have legions of attorneys to separate himself from his son’s business enterprise. 

“So I show up at the Beverly Hilton early. And, obviously, next to Davos, the Milken Conference is probably the largest, you know, private conference of billionaires and successful people in all kinds of walks of life that show up for that conference every year. So the Beverly Hilton’s busy,” Bobulinski said.

“So it was Jim Biden, Hunter Biden, and myself sitting there, and his dad was running a little bit late. And so what I thought was sort of slightly odd at the time is Hunter and Jim started coaching me about the meeting,” he continued. 

Hunter and James Biden advised Bobulinski to discuss only the background information pertaining to the ‘SinoHawk” venture. When Joe Biden walked into the hotel lobby, Hunter Biden went up to his father to brief him on the meeting before introducing Bobulinski, the businessman recounted. 

“So then they came into the bar. I stood up. Obviously, you know, we shook some hands. And I think Hunter made a comment of something like, you know,  ‘Dad, this is Tony who I’ve told you about,’ and the stuff we’re working on with the Chinese,” Bobulinski said. 

“I shook his hands, and we sat down. And I think the meeting was, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. I remember going through my background in detail. I was very proud of it. I think he actually went first out of, you know, obviously, general respect at the time, and, you know, talked about some of the things they had dealt with as a family, their appreciation for the military, and stuff like that. And Jim and Hunter didn’t do a lot of talking, as you can imagine.”

The next day, Bobulinski was Joe Biden’s guest for his Milken Conference speech and he sat at the head table. He went backstage with Biden at the conclusion of the speech and walked Biden to his car.

“But, you know, in the walk out to the car, you know, he thanked me. And I just remember a comment of, ‘Hey, you know, look out for my brother and son and, you know, thank you for what you’re doing’ kind of thing,” Bobulinski testified.

Bobulinski’s meeting with James Biden to discuss the Biden family and the “SinoHawk” proposal happened after the reassurance from Joe Biden.

Earlier in his testimony, Bobulinski referenced the federal prosecution of former CEFC executive Patrick Ho on bribery charges and he repeatedly described his hesitation to get into business with the Chinese firm.

In March 2018, Ho wired Hunter Biden a $1 million retainer fee for legal services that were never performed, according to IRS whistleblower Joseph Ziegler. Hunter Biden and Ho originally agreed to the retainer around the time of Ho’s November 2017 arrest. The Patrick Ho payment is also listed in Hunter Biden’s failed guilty plea deal with the Delaware U.S. Attorney’s office. 

Ho was sentenced in March 2019 to three years in prison for participating in an international bribery scheme. Chinese authorities arrested CEFC Chairman Ye Jianming in early 2018 for suspected bribery and his whereabouts are unknown.

Bobulinski began his testimony with an opening statement portraying Joe Biden as the center of a foreign influence peddling scheme run by his family members. Afterwards, Bobulinski discussed his military service and the advanced engineering degrees he received to teach Naval officers how to run nuclear reactors. He became the chief technology officer at a Naval education facility and obtained a high level security clearance in the process. 

Bobulinski went into the private sector following his military career and became a wealth manager for an extremely high net worth family. Over the course of his investment career, Bobulinski conducted business all around the world and traveled to dozens of countries.

His long standing business relationship with Gilliar, another international businessman, is what brought him into contact with Walker and eventually Hunter and James Biden. CEFC had paid Walker $3 million in spring 2017 from its State Energy HK account for introducing them to potential deals, Walker testified. 

Walker distributed approximately $1 million of the State Energy HK funds to a company linked to Gilliar and $1 million of the funds to accounts connected to Biden family members, bank records show. Bobulinski was not part of the business dealings that resulted in the State Energy HK wire to Walker.

Hunter Biden, James Biden, Gilliar, businessman Rob Walker, Jianming, and other CEFC executives were supposed to participate in the “SinoHawk” venture, Bobulinski recalled. 

Gilliar suggested to Bobulinski, Walker and Hunter Biden in May 2017 giving 10% equity in the business to the “big guy” through Hunter Biden in what appears to be discussions related to the “SinoHawk” venture. 

“10 held by H for the big guy?” Gilliar asked in an email thread on Hunter Biden’s abandoned laptop archive. The New York Post first reported on the emails ahead of the 2020 presidential election.

“The H in that message is Hunter Biden, and the big guy — 100 percent — is Joe Biden,” Bobulinski asserted. He recalled Gilliar often spoke in code because of his intelligence background.

Bobulinski repeatedly accused Joe Biden of lying about his knowledge of his son’s foreign business dealings and interactions with his son’s business associates. 

“They’re lying. It’s a blatant lie. You have stacks of evidence that Joe Biden showed up at meetings, shook hands, participated in phone calls, all the way back to last summer,” Bobulinski said of those who insist Joe Biden had no role in his son’s foreign business dealings. 

“Just him being on the phone is evidence of involvement and enabling the transaction. And any statement otherwise is an absurd statement,” he added. 

Hunter Biden’s former business associate Devon Archer testified in July and said Joe Biden spoke to his son’s foreign business associates on 20 occasions. Archer recalled multiple dinners Joe Biden attended with his son’s foreign business associates and said the Biden family “brand” protected Ukrainian energy firm Burisma Holdings. Hunter Biden and Archer previously worked together on Burisma’s board.

Walker also testified that Joe Biden met with Jianming and a group of CEFC associates after his vice presidency concluded. The meeting took place around the time of the $3 million State Energy HK wire.

House Democrats have sought to undermine Bobulinski’s credibility by accusing him of lying to the FBI and casting him as a disgruntled, wannabe business partner. Bobulinski disputed this characterization and noted the “SinoHawk” business had executed an operating agreement. 

The joint venture ended up falling apart and CEFC instead entered into a venture with Hunter and James Biden known as Hudson West III beginning in August 2017, according to Hunter Biden’s federal tax indictment and bank records. Hunter Biden pleaded not guilty on Jan. 11 to the tax charges.

Representatives Jamie Raskin (D., Md) and Dan Goldman (D., N.Y.) interrupted Bobulinski on multiple occasions and expressed strong hostility towards him during his testimony. Stefan Passantino, Bobulinski’s attorney, wrote a letter Wednesday harshly criticizing Raskin’s conduct and his statement about Bobulinski’s testimony. House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer (R.,Ky) also criticized his fellow lawmakers for their conduct towards Bobulinski.

The impeachment inquiry into President Biden launched by House Republicans last year is focused primarily on Joe Biden’s alleged role in his family’s overseas business dealings. 

In December, the president denied ever communicating with his son’s associates the day after the House Ways and Means Committee released email metadata indicating Joe Biden used an alias to exchange over 50 private emails with Eric Schwerin, another former business associate. 

James Biden is scheduled to testify for the impeachment probe on Feb. 21 and Hunter Biden is slated to testify the following week.