Last week I sat down in a studio in New York and chatted for about 90 minutes with Ezra Klein about my forthcoming book My Father Left Me Ireland. Ezra is recently back from paternity leave. And the book includes some attacks on the “wonk” view of the world. So he was well up for a discussion.

He described the book as “a moving, lyrical memoir about fatherhood and identity.” And said “It’s also a stirring defense of nationalism, an attack on wonks, and a critique of some of the core assumptions of liberal modernity.” I plead guilty on all charges.

We talked about the experience of growing up without a father, about whether social science captures the most important information about our social and political lives, and whether nationalism can help guide our moral impulses toward the good.

Listen to it and then please pre-order the book, which comes out at the end of the month.