Andy – I love the phrase “the Gitmo bar.” But, I guess we’re going to have to disagree on quite a few other things. As I’ve said, I think you have the better argument when it comes to the controversy over the al Qaeda Seven Ten, but as to their “pro-Islamist” motives, I really think we need more evidence. I am familiar with the George Orwell style argument about pacifists being “objectively pro-fascist” and I think you could make that sort of argument about many on the left, with varying degrees of persuasiveness. But that argument is not the one you seem to be intimating. You seem to be suggesting that these lawyers — or some of them — are not only objectively pro-Islamist, but subjectively so; that they, in their own minds, see themselves as supporting al Qaeda. I find that very hard to believe, and if that’s your argument, I think more evidence is required. You say you suspect we’ll be hearing much more about this in coming days. I hope so, because I’d like to hear about that evidence.

As for the issue of Charles Krauthammer, who has been taking a beating around here quite a bit (and unfairly I think), I think I’m more in his camp than yours and Mark’s. With one caveat: I think Krauthammer was too hard on Geert Wilders. I don’t always agree with every thing Wilders says — or how he says it — but I think Wilders’ argument is far more complex and his cause far more just, than Krauthammer’s short take allowed.

But I think Krauthammer’s distinction between Islam and Islamism is both valid on the merits and necessary as a guide to foreign and American policy. I agree with Andy and others that there is a lot more overlap between Islam and Islamism than many claim, and disentangling the two – historically, theologically or politically – is much more difficult than the glib labels “Islam” and “Islamism” suggest.

But that is not an argument for getting rid of the labels and the distinctions they represent, it is an argument to insist they be applied even more rigorously and definitively. If Muslims felt forced to pick a side — Islam or Islamist? – it would be good for Islam and good for the West. Working from the assumption that there is no distinction between the two requires, rhetorically and otherwise, to treat them all alike, and I think that’s ill-advised. I covered much of this in a post last fall, so I won’t repeat all of that here. Though I have few illusions that I’ve ended the discussion.