Kim Holmes is a veteran foreign-policy hand. He worked at the Heritage Foundation for many years. He was an assistant secretary of state under George W. Bush. Today, he is vice chairman of the Center for International Private Enterprise. And he is my latest guest on Q&A, here.

In our discussion, he is very thoughtful, very shrewd — and very candid. Refreshingly so. There is no pussyfootin’ around, as George C. Wallace used to say. (Wallace’s moment is now. He should be alive.)

Holmes was born in Kentucky and grew up in Florida, along the Space Coast. He watched the rockets to the moon go up from his backyard.

What was it like to grow up as a boy named “Kim”? Not so bad, actually — at least at first. But then “Kim” became a popular name for actresses in Hollywood. And “Kimberly” became a popular name in the country at large — a popular girls’ name.

When I was young, I knew an older man whose first name was “Shirley.” He was a tough guy. A retired FBI agent. One day, he told me, “My life was just fine until that darn Shirley Temple came along.”

In our podcast, Kim Holmes and I talk about a variety of things, including Ukraine, of course. The world’s attention seems to be ebbing. Such is the way of things. There are signs, says Holmes, that Germany and France are eager to get back to business as usual. Britain is different, though. And so is Eastern Europe. The Poles, for example, are strong backers of the Ukrainians.

How about Americans? We are split, says Holmes. Certainly the Republican Party or the Right is. Figures such as Mitch McConnell and Mitt Romney represent one view of foreign policy: deterrence, engagement, U.S. leadership, etc. Then you have Josh Hawley, Rand Paul, et al.

Isolationism, always a strain in American life, is resurgent.

There is an obvious moral case for support of Ukraine, says Holmes. There is also a “security case.” He spells this out. If Putin succeeds in Ukraine, the chances of a global war grow. If he fails — if he is pushed out — peace and stability have a much greater chance.

About China, Holmes says many interesting things. One is this: They are having a crisis over COVID. The government could use a distraction — and Taiwan makes a handy one. The government is milking nationalism for all it’s worth. Forget COVID. Shouldn’t we bring this renegade, uppity province to heel and unite our great China?

Kim Holmes is an increasingly rare bird — an old-fashioned American conservative, a Reagan conservative, a champion of free-market liberal democracy. His worldview used to be common on the right. Even standard. Now it is next to weird.

As he explains, he believes in the rule of law, free enterprise, democracy, traditional values, with an accent on virtue. All of these things go together, he says, because of the uniqueness of the American founding and the uniqueness of American history.

Also, the uniqueness of American conservatism. Ours is one of the few conservatisms, he says, with elements of classical liberalism: limited government, free markets. In Europe, conservatisms have almost always been statist, with an emphasis on blood, soil, and class.

“We had a really good thing going, in the American tradition,” says Holmes, “and that’s now being challenged.” It has long been challenged by progressivism; now it is also being challenged by Euro-style rightism.

Holmes draws a fascinating comparison between the 1960s and the 2020s. An apt one, I think. In the ’60s, leftists were impatient with liberals. “Establishment” liberals. These leftists wanted to make their mark in the world. They wanted to turn the world upside down. They were bored with liberal-democratic procedure. They wanted action and excitement, and they wanted it now, baby.

Burn it down.

Today, rightists are challenging conservatives in the same fashion.

In Europe, the Right has traditionally been anti-capitalist, says Holmes. That is because they are anti-liberty. But in America? Many people on the right, says Holmes, have turned against capitalism, because they associate it with the “woke” corporation.

Which is a problem, and an interesting one.

You will hear from people who regard themselves as conservative that the Republican Party ought to be a “workers’ party” and the conservative movement a “workers’ movement.” Kevin McCarthy and Marco Rubio have begun to talk that way, for example. According to Holmes, this has a neo-Marxist air. American conservatism has always been a philosophy for all people, with class grievance left to others.

Besides, has anything in history helped workers and poor people more than free-market democracy? I will put the record of freedom up against that of central planning and social engineering any day.

Many Americans on the right are enamored of Viktor Orbán, the Hungarian leader. They make pilgrimages to him. He will headline CPAC this week. (Ronald Reagan and Mitch Daniels used to be big deals at CPAC!) Kim Holmes is not enamored. Orbán is “bad news on a number of levels,” he says. For one thing, “he’s in bed with Putin,” which alone should be disqualifying.

“I think they’re being fooled,” says Holmes of Orbán fans, or many of them. “I think they’re being played.” Orbán is “a cynic,” says Holmes — not a defender of Christian civilization or any other civilization. He rules through “cronies and oligarchs.” Very familiar.

Toward the end of our podcast, Holmes sticks up for ideas, broadly speaking. Debates over ideas. He sees two scorpions in a bottle: the woke Left and the populist Right. In this bottle, there is very little room for thought, for genuine debate over ideas. What matters is, not ideas, but attitude. Fighting. Tribe.

Does this strike you as true? Kim Holmes is thought-provoking, if nothing else. And he has been in the trenches for a long, long time. Again, to listen to him, go here.