Yesterday morning, Joe Scarborough asked Senator Lindsey Graham if he agreed with Donald Trump that “billionaires shouldn’t be allowed to pay 14 percent in taxes.” (That’s a reference to the tax rate on investments, lower in some circumstances than the income tax.)

“I want to do something like Simpson-Bowles,” Graham said. “I will do revenue. No Democrat is going to adjust the age of retirement or means-test benefits unless Republicans do revenue.”

The Simpson-Bowles proposal “would bring the tax rate on capital gains and dividends up to the ordinary rate of either 23 or 28 percent versus the current 15 percent.”

Scarborough continued, “Should they really be paying 14 percent taxes when small business owners are paying 39 percent?”

“I’m not going to generate more revenue for the government unless we pay debt down with it,” Graham said. “So I’m not going to go from 14 percent to 30 percent, whatever the number is, unless we have a deal to get us out of debt. But if you’re looking for a Republican, Joe, to do revenue, count me in.”

The tax rate on investment income is always going to look too low to people who don’t have investments. One survey this year found 52 percent of Americans “are currently not investing in the stock market—either by buying individual stocks or mutual funds, or through a retirement account such as a 401(k) or IRA.” The figures may be much lower; a study from the Federal Reserve found that only 13.8 percent of U.S. households owned stocks in 2013, down from 15.1 percent in 2010. (Note survey respondents and households are different measurements.)

To quote a wise man, “If you tax something you get less of it. It’s as simple as that. The more you tax work, the less people are willing to work. The more you tax investments, the fewer investments you’ll get. This isn’t rocket science.”

That wise man, of course, is . . . Donald Trump.